Salem - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Flood of September 1, 1940

DebbieDilksOrner — 2009-12-31 06:01:25Z

I also have WILLIAMS in several of my family branches. one was born in Fayette Co, PA and moved to Salem County NJ. And most of the rest were in either Salem, Cumberland Counties, and a few in Cape May County, New Jersey, USA. On my late husband side, he had a slew of WILLIAMS from Chester County, PA.
I will see if I can find and upload the picture of my mom almost 4 sitting on a bridge rail with her grandfather, Abodon Osborn, with the empty Alloway lake behind them
Debbie Dilks Orner.

Re: Flood of September 1, 1940

Dave_Bates_Dare_Family — 2009-12-30 15:58:09Z

Fascinating account!

Dick, I am interested in discussing your line since I have a very long Williams family tree. Coule you send me an email at davebates77@hotmail.com ?

Thanks!
Dave

Re: Flood of September 1, 1940

Kaseymoe — 2009-12-27 20:49:47Z

My wife's aunt died in this event along with her infant daughter. My wife's uncle, Kerwin Crispin, saved one child - placed her in a barn and returned to the water but was unable to rescue his wife, Dora, and the baby. Dramatic and tragic outcome from the dam break and flood.

My wife is Gay Ward Williams from Palatine, NJ now in Kansas City. Her mom was Ferol Crispin Ward, sister of Kerwin.

Dick Williams

Re: Sharp, Pedrick, Mattson

muddycruddy — 2009-12-20 15:13:54Z

We have a connection to Harriett Seaman Mattson. She is Frank/ Francis Seaman's sister. He is my great grandfather on the Myers side. His grandaughter, Bertha Seaman is my grandmother.

Re: George Burnett and Mary Strange

DeLeonAdams — 2009-12-16 03:09:33Z

Thanks.. I believe the last name of Strange is probably correct. Her granddaughter was named Elizabeth Strange Thomas. Thank you again

Re: George Burnett and Mary Strange

Valerie_Caulfield — 2009-12-15 23:07:48Z

Salem County Marriages by H. Stanley Craig report the marriage from County Clerk's records on p. 41.

Burnet, George and Mary Strange 9-13-1856

A couple other Burnetts also listed in same place, a Jeremiah who m. Jane Thompson 6-21-1866 . Also a William m. Barbary Hellems 9-5-1839.

Hellems more typically found as Helms, and my guess would be Strange is probably Strang or String, old glass family in the region. Tells me that Burnett may have been too?

For earlier time marriages in NJ, you can check the NJ Archives for marriage licenses. njarchives.org and look for their searchable data bases. Many of the NJ Archives book series are available now on line via Google books, so a good place to look for wills or early land record abstracts or newspaper abstracts.

Val

George Burnett and Mary Strange

S_Hitson — 2009-12-15 18:55:45Z

I am looking for information on the marriage of George Burnett and Mary Strange. I have a typed page from a cousin that was copied from his mother's papers in 1957 listing a marriage record in Salem Co NJ for a George Burnett and Mary Strange. I am also looking for any information on the family of John and Robert Burnett. The bible transcript shows Robert Burnett migrated from NJ to Virginia abt 1760. Was attacked by indians in 1778 and killed. His wife and 2 sons escaped out the back and hid in a log until they could make their way to the nearest fort. I am looking for more info on this family

Elwell's from 1900 to present...Salem County

travelinfoolim — 2009-12-05 21:27:04Z

Hey there!
I was told I could ask about information on this site for Elwell's. My father was named Robert Samuel Elwell, his father was Grant Herbert (or Herbert Grant)Elwell. My father's mother was Roberta Ransier Elwell and she had 3 children, Elizabeth, William and Robert. Later, Grant remarried and had Ronald. We have a book that dates back from the 1600's up to about 1800's, but nothing that connects us up to today. No one in my family can seem to find out anything about Grant's family line. I don't even know what state they came from before CA. Our side lives in California. We have info on the Ransier/Eikenberry line from central California (Fresno area) if anyone needs that
My father's brother William had 5 children and lived mostly in the LA basin (Diamond Bar, etc.). Elizabeth had one son and now lives in Orange, CA.
Any info would be great!

Re: Sarah Garrison & Isaac VanMeter Salem Co., New Jersey

roseav68 — 2009-12-05 21:25:52Z

Hi Val, Can you tell me what mailing list you are referring to. Thanks for trying I greatly appreciate it. Rose

Re: Sarah Garrison & Isaac VanMeter Salem Co., New Jersey

roseav68 — 2009-12-05 21:25:29Z

Val, Thank you. I'll give it a try.
Rose

Re: Sarah Garrison & Isaac VanMeter Salem Co., New Jersey

Valerie_Caulfield — 2009-12-05 17:27:23Z

Hi Rose,

NJSALEM-L@rootsweb.com

Each of the Roots web Message Boards also has Mailing List you can sign up on. That way all messages come through your email and you can respond to them. But all the Board messages are also "gateway" sent to the Lists. Sometimes I forget to look at the headers too, so respond via the list but that does not put them up on the Message Board, only emails.

This goes for all of rootsweb, if you are seeking information on someone, search the Boards AND the Mailing lists Archives. There is sometimes more information found on one than the other.

Val

Re: Sarah Garrison & Isaac VanMeter Salem Co., New Jersey

Valerie_Caulfield — 2009-12-05 14:28:39Z

I have seen that pair mentioned in my travels, but sorry, no proof. I checked a few volumes I have for Salem county marriages, plus surrounding areas that seemed likely, but don't find it here. Several people seem to have responded to the mailing list and not the message board, so you may want to search those archives if you are not signed on. I don't see the answer, but more sets of eyes may help you find the proof you need eventually.

I found evidence showing what has to be an older Isaac VM in Salem county, involved in land transactions, as per newspaper notices in 1742. Both appeared in same issue. Keep it in mind as you work the VM, the names are commonly repeated among cousins in the several generations, so will take some fine tooth combing through the data to make sure you are looking at the same individuals.

NEWSPAPER NOTICES

To be SOLD by the Subscriber hereof, A Tract of Land, containing 400 Acres of Land and Marsh, in Salem County, joining on Delaware River, being about seven Miles from Salem : As also 400 Acres of Land scituate in said County, near Alloway's Creek, about 100 Acres cleared Land, .100 Appletrees, very good Fruit, good Wheat Land, and good Meadow Ground, well-watered and timbred for Fencing. The first mentioned Tract exceeding convenient for Stock. Treat with the Subscriber for Terms of Sale.

Isaac Van Meter.

NOTICE is hereby given by the Subscriber hereof, that on Account of Purchase of a certain Tract of Land, scituate on the South Branch of Potomack, bought from James Ross, the Subscriber hereof having given Obligation for the Sum of Twenty-Eight Pounds payable in May next : These are to desire that an Assignment of said Obligation may not be taken by any Person, unless they will stand a Suit of Law for the same, he the said Ross not being able to make any Title for said Land.

Isaac Van Meter. Salem, January 31, 1742, 3.

- The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 2, 1742, 3.

Extracts from American newspapers, relating to New Jersey. 1704-1775, Volume 12
By William Nelson, Abraham Van Doren Honey
http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA165&dq=Isaac%20Vanmet...

Good luck,
Val

Sarah Garrison & Isaac VanMeter Salem Co., New Jersey

roseav68 — 2009-11-28 05:04:44Z

Looking to verify information.
I have a Sarah Garrison born Apr.13, 1759 married Isaac VanMeter born Mar.4, 1750 & died Nov.22,1811.

Children:
1.Abraham VanMeter
2.Jacob Vanmeter
3.Elizbeth VanMeter
4.Isaac Vanmeter-married Sarah Buck in 1808 {found marriage}

I would greatly appreciate any help. I am trying to find the marriage date for Sarah Garrison & Isaac Vanmeter.Thank you, Rose

Obituary Look-ups for Kilsons?

adriennewhaley — 2009-11-15 20:35:00Z

I am searching for obituaries for the following two folks, and am hoping someone on here can help:

Samuel Dennis Kilson (aka Sandtop)
B. 9 Aug 1913
D. 8 Oct 1962

Bertha Elizabeth Kilson (aka Lib)
B. 7 Feb 1918
D. 2 Apr. 1953

Both seem to have lived their entire lives (with the exception of military service for Samuel) in Salem County.

Thanks!

Re: Elwell's from 1900 to present...

travelinfoolim — 2009-11-09 01:35:42Z

Hello again,
Yes, I used to live in CA but recently moved to Wyoming! The rest of my family is there though. My email is travelinfoolim@yahoo.com
Would love to hear about all you know. My Aunt Betty lives in Orange and one of my sisters live in Lomita. \
Eager to hear how many times removed we are, lol!

Re: Elwell's from 1900 to present...

ER10000 — 2009-11-08 20:21:01Z

Wonderful to hear from you. It was from your own postings that I was able to put things together. We are first cousins many times removed. The line and its details is extensive. I'm not sure this site will allow us that much space. May I suggest you give me your e-mail address. If I understood correctly you are in California. So am I in the LA area. While I await your response, I'll get everything together.

Re: Elwell's from 1900 to present...

travelinfoolim — 2009-11-08 03:15:27Z

Hi! I have some information on My grandmother's side (Ransier), but I don't think to Germany. This is exciting!
Please tell me what you'd like to know, I only know a little as I am trying to find info myself. My name is Roberta Elwell, after my grandmother and I have three sisters and one brother. Where do you fall into the family tree? I am Robert's oldest daughter (he recently passed away in 2007). My aunt Betty (Elizabeth Elwell)is also working on the tree and I know she would love to hear more info also. Write back soon!
How much do you know or need?

Re: Elwell's from 1900 to present...

ER10000 — 2009-11-07 22:26:48Z

You asked for data on the Elwell's. But I wondered if you needed data on the Ransiers? I have Roberta Rancier's line back to Germany before the Revolutionary War.I would also like to obtain the latest data on Roberta's descendants. I look forward to your response.

Re: Dunham-Wilkins 1829 + Alloway

BeverlyCarrBradway — 2009-11-06 20:28:14Z

Candy at Salem Co. Clerk's Office would welcome the Dunham info as she was documenting one of the family homes in Alloway.

Re: Obit Help Needed Please

kathy5783 — 2009-10-28 22:58:50Z

Hi
Seen your old post and would like to trade information. Josiah Megill is my grandfather and my mom his daughter was named after his sister.
Thanks,
Kathy

Re: Humphreys Family Tree

kathy5783 — 2009-10-28 22:17:45Z

Hi
My line is Justena Carey Megill married Charles Raymond Humphrey. My grandfather Josiah Megill is Justena's sister. My mother is Justena Carey Megill. Named for her aunt Justena. This is my line. Would like to trade information.
Thank you,
Kathy

Re: Watson

geneslady — 2009-10-28 02:32:26Z

Helen....
I have in my database George Watson and family - data comes from 1860 and 1880 Census for Alloways Creek, Salem County, NJ:

George Watson, b. 1824
Ellen Watson, b. 1832
Martha R. Watson, b. 1856
Mary E. Watson, b. 1856
Sarah A. Watson, b. 1858
William Mowers Watson, b. Mar 1861
Ella Watson, b. 1869

I have located his farm in the 1876 Salem County Atlas. Looks like he owned 90 acres and it was close to Oakland Station - apparently a RR depot.
I see now where your Flanagin tie comes in.........William M. Watson m. Mary E. Boultinghouse - whose momma was Sarah A. Flanagin, d/o Thomas Flanagin & Sarah Peterson. These two are buried at Sharpstown Methodist Cemetery.

Barbara
in Wilmington, NC

Berrys Chapel

BeverlyCarrBradway — 2009-10-28 00:14:10Z

Do you have dates for either Joshua or Alice Cuff Douglass? Alice, d/o Wm Cuff is on a list of those buried there.

Do you know how Joshua was related to Wm A Douglass (Wife Nancy Valentine) buried there in 1933? I've looked up the death certs of a few known to be buried there but can only do this with known death dates.

The cemetery you refer to is Berry's Chapel. There were two worship structures there in the woods. The current congregation is now on Rt. 49.

Re: Watson

BeverlyCarrBradway — 2009-10-27 23:52:39Z

This is from recent memory. George Watson has a tombstone in the cemetery you mention. Daughter Ella does not. There was a pamphlet made of Ella's murder & it is on file at SCHS. The pamphet was titled "Yorktown Tradgedy" mentions minimal info., as I recall, on Ella's parents but did give some background on them. The old pamplet does include a sketch of Ella. For a donation & payment of copy fees you should be able to request a copy.

Re: Firehock

kmmack — 2009-10-22 16:59:44Z

I have no idea if anyone is still researching this but I found in a Grantor/Grantee index my family dealing with Frederick Firehawk in NYC and wanted to find out who he was.

*Grantor: William Slamm and others, Joseph Slamm and others and Levi D Slamm and Margaret his wife to *Grantee: Frederick Firehawk Lib. 403 Page 556 dated Feb 23, 1840 and recorded Apl. 4, 1840. Also one other from Levi D Slamm and Margaret his wife to Frederick Firehawk Lib. 403 Page 559 - same dates.
*Grantor: Frederick Firehawk to *Grantee: Trustees of Mary Slamm Dated Feb 24, 1840 and recorded Apl 4, 1840 Lib 403 pages 557 & 560.
My guess is the Frederick Firehawk was a lawyer.

Re: SURNAME: HANNAH, RAY, WENTZELL, HAINES

MALTMANZ — 2009-10-13 01:09:59Z

My Rays are:
Zaccheus Ray and Elizabeth Sheets
James and Rebecca S Sanderlin
Clarence Ray and Martha J Ray
Charles Ray and Anna S Ray

Garrison,Van Meter,Bodine,Du Bois,Keen (Salem County)

florencemaree — 2009-10-08 19:58:57Z

Looking for information on Gamaliel Garrison m Christen Keen in 1762 - verification from Craig and Fenwick geneologies. Looking to verify son Jedediah (1769 -1847). Married Hannah or Anna (died 1812,possibly in childbirth),not clear. My line comes thru Jedediah to his son Gamaliel (1803-1871)and wife Sarah Bilderback(1806-1889)who moved to DE in 1838-1842 time frame.

Re: FIRTH, ELIZABETH AND SAMUAL

macchione14 — 2009-10-01 05:51:01Z

Hi,

How about info on Harry & Sarah Firth from Jersey City, NJ, they had a son in about 1897, he married at age 20 to a Julia Daly, any info, thanks, Dee

Re: Where is the "Bartlet River"??

Valerie_Caulfield — 2009-09-30 11:51:26Z

I didn't look closely at the header, so responded first to the Salem list, instead of the board. Sorry this will now go out twice to some folks.

Berkley river for Lord John Berkley was the name Fenwick tried to pin on Oldmans Creek,but it didn't really stick.

In the old deeds you'll find several variations/spellings, but no doubt some problem with old writing from ancient documents.

Also Alderman's Kil or Kilen under Dutch and Swedes. Sometimes spelled Oulde Mans, Auld Mans, etc over time.

I know the Delaware river had a few alternate names, as did Oldmans, so found this site on a google search.

Place Names - Delaware River
Delaware River Lenape-wihittuck. Kit-hanne, Swenska Rivier (Swedish River), Nya Swerige's Elf (New Sweden River), Charles River, Zuydt (Soutir) River, Prince Hendrik's River

http://www.newrivernotes.com/de/deplace.htm

My guess you are looking at the will of Thomas Pedrick, cooper, shows that version of the spelling. But if you check the index in the NJA early will book, you'll see also Berklie or Berkley and a few others slip through that are not indexed, when you follow the various records.

Val

Where is the "Bartlet River"??

capnjohn42 — 2009-09-30 01:13:39Z

Got a Salem Co. will, 1719, of a cooper "of Penns Neck, of Bartlet River" but that name is no longer on contemporary maps. Maybe it was one of the branches of the Salem River??

Can anyone help, please??

Thanks!!

Cap'n John

PS You can reply directly if you wish to
capnjohn AT salsgiver DOT com

1803 Deed Charles Newbold of Burlington to Ezekiel Peterson

Valerie_Caulfield — 2009-09-24 17:13:32Z

Deed Book E p. 257
4 Feb 1803 Charles Newbold of Springfield Twp, Burlington County, NJ to Ezekiel Peterson. A parcel of meadow ground in Mannington Twp, Salem County, NJ.

Begins at Slapes old line ditch,

Then S55* W 9 ch 60 lx to line of Benjamin Lippincott's lot.

Then N34*45"W 32 rods to middle of Salem Creek.

Then 48 rods up creek to Upper line ditch.

Then N34*E along Job Shreeve's line
11 acres more or less
Consideration $293.33
Which Newbold had by deed from Job Shreeve and Elizabeth h/w dated 12 Nov 1798 for a larger tract of meadow. (see Lib A, p. 543, 544 and 545.)

Wit: Furman Mulford and Elijah Cattel
Ack. Thomas Sinnickson 4 Feb 1803
Recv'd 4 Feb
and Rec. 25 Feb 1803,
Clement Acton, Clerk

1798 Deed John Kincaid of Phila. to Patrick McCormick of UAC

Valerie_Caulfield — 2009-09-24 16:51:28Z

Deed Book E p. 158
Salem county , NJ

John Kincaid, merchant of Philadelphia, PA and Eleanor h/w to Patrick McCormick of Upper Alloways Creek, Salem county, a tract in Upper Alloways Creek,Salem County, New Jersey

Described as starting at a post in the road from Thompson's Bridge (Alloway), and Swedes Bridge, corner of lands sold by Kincaid to William Morrison and a corner to land sold this day to John Greenfield, borders land sold this day to John Mouers, line of John Holmes, Esq, bounding land sold this day to John Horn.

11 acres and 55 perches, all part of a larger tract Kincaid purchased from George Hitchner and wife 19 Oct 1795, who had bought same of Aaron Thompson and wife 9 June 1795.

Signed and Sealed John and Eleanor Kincaid
Wit: James Wright and Henry Nimmo (?)
(I question the name but what I got from what I could see on the record vnc)

Ack: 13 March 1798

Rec'vd 13 Dec 1801
Rec. 11 Jan 1801 Clement Acton, Clk

*Note the difference in dates, a 3 year delay between the acknowledgment, which might have been nearer the actual date of sale, and the record made in the courthouse. Possible this was brought in on date of a further sale to someone else, to make good the chain of title, but I only took it for the Wright and McCormick mentions. Cross references to other names mentioned in same deed book might give further information. vnc

1802 Deed, UPN. Josiah Biddle and wife to Poltis Risnar

Valerie_Caulfield — 2009-09-24 04:17:35Z

Salem County Courthouse, Clerk's Records
Deed Book D p. 298

Josiah Biddle of UPN and Lacedonia his wife, to Poltis Risnar

19 Jan 1802

Consideration L80 gold and silver for a lot of ground in UPN.

Beginning at a stake in line of Elihu Pedrick and Aquilla Jone's line.

Then S52 and 1/2*W , bounding on same 9 chains and 50 links to a corner.

Then by same S 51and 1/2*E 19 chains and 60 links to a stake.

Then N 52*6' 2 chains 75 links to a stake.

Then N 37*W 19 chains to the beginning. Containing 9 and 1/2 acres and 10 perches of land and swamp more or less.

Signed and Sealed by Josiah X Biddle and Lecednonia X Biddle, their marks.

Witnesses. William Biddle and Edward Bilderback.

Acknowledged 18 Jan 1802
Recorded 21 June 1802, Clement Acton, recorder.

George and Mary Biddle to Aaron Biddle 1797 UPN

Valerie_Caulfield — 2009-09-23 23:35:21Z

Book E Deeds
Salem County, NJ
p. 241

George Biddle of UPN, yeoman and Mary h/w to Aaron Biddle, yeoman 17 May 1797. L15 current money in hand paid.

Lot in UPN
Begnning at stake for a corner on main Road that leads from Charles Dolbow's landing to Scull Town,

Thence along said road, bounding on lands of aforesaid grantor N 54* & 1/2 W 26 perches to a stake for a corner.

. Then bounding on George Biddle's land S 34* W 9 perch to a stake for a corner.

Then bounding still on George Biddle's lands S 54 & 1/2* E 28 Perches and 12 links to a small maple marked for a corner.

Then bounding on Joseph Allen's land N 15* & 30' E 10 perches to beginning. Containing 1 & 1/2 acres more or less.

Signed and Sealed
George Biddle
Mary (X) Biddle, her mark
Wit:Joseph Allen
John Dolbow

Appeared 1 Jan 1803 Mary Garrison, late Mary Biddle, before the Judges of the Court of Common Please, Ack: Wm. Biddle

Also appeared witness Joseph Allen who ack.

rec'd 2 Feb 1803 and rec. 19 Feb 1803, Clement Acton, Recorder

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

Oh_Mama_Mia — 2009-09-19 11:55:59Z

Oh, I know what you mean about tearing the pages out of the family bible! I was interviewing a distant cousin and she had one of the old family bibles and said there were pages missing. Low and behold, my father sends me 70 lb box of pictires and 8mm home movies and guess what I found!!! the pages she was talking about that were missing from that bible. What luck!!! My great grandmother must have given them to my grandmother.

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

ChekWriter — 2009-09-18 23:45:02Z

Yes, I see these names on various data bases, and for some do not have any chidlren for the HARRIS - WELD marriage.

And for Elizabeth HILLS, some do not have any parent for her.

That is the problem I have been having, have not come across any wills or estate packages, that tells enough who belongs to who, on my family line.

So just have to keep plodding along and hope for another break through, down the line.

I do see these families also posted on the LDS Web site, famiysearch.org by many inputers, with very old dates, 1969 etc. Research back then what it was, . . . . .

Not every one had or has access to family bibles, like the one cited on previous postings. I know our family bible, and its fly page, etc, went missing many years ago by a very well meaning relative. He just wanted to have them.

A razor blade did the number while no one was looking. Then in the many years hence, it just shredded away into tiny pieces, as he carried it in his wallet. I know well, what happens to pieces of paper anything in a man's wallet.
Body heat, perspiration, etc.

Pat
cw

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

ChekWriter — 2009-09-18 23:09:28Z

Just noticed that the HARRIS - GIBBS - GALLAGHER - BOROUGH/BORROUGH families are listed with Gloucester co NJ references as well.

Maybe there might be some thing in those county records that might shed some light on the difference of the 2 HARRIS lines, since they do not match up on DNA testing.

Just a suggestion.

pat
cw
Still trying to find who was Nancy HARRIS or HARRISON parents, she married Elias MILLS.

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

ChekWriter — 2009-09-18 20:02:11Z

Thank you. That clears up those questions I had.

You put Elizabeth MILLS, it was HILLS/HILLES according to what is posted on rts wb and family search.org web site.

I will fix up my files.

It just came about because I saw that the EWING - FITHIAN - GARRISON - READING - BEATTY, etc families relate to my MILLS as well, of Smithtown, LI NY and Jamaica, LI NY.

Just wanted to link them on the one RTS WB MILLS data base I have been compiling over time.

Thank you again.

It is great now that we have the DNA testing, and again, of course, if the sample was taken correctly, it also helps a lot too.

Have found 5 other branches of my family MILLS, with exact matches on the 12 marker test. And up to a 1 distance on the 37 marker test.

HARRIS is one of the surnames that apparently matches to that of my brother's DNA test on the 12 marker test.

So I guess there is an ancestor that both of our lines share.

pat
cw

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

genesailor1 — 2009-09-18 12:34:15Z

Good Morning Sara.

And I thought I was the only one that spent half the night awake :-)

I met the cousin that matched Dad's DNA. He descends from the Rev. John Harris, David's older brother, who trained in Maryland and lived, worked and died in South Carolina. We spent an interesting day being shown around the area and enjoying his family's company.

Is your email still with comcast? We really do need to finally meet.

Have a terrific day! Connie

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

genesailor1 — 2009-09-18 12:19:06Z

Good Morning, Pat.

Oops! It is Elizabeth Hills not Mills. Sometimes my fingers and my brain are on two different planets :-)

DNA testing can be very fustrating. A 12 marker test is not adequate and I always try to encourage a tester to do at least 25 markers. It does give the haplogroup which is extremely important. This David Harris is in the R1b1 haplogroup and my David Harris lineage is in R1b1b2 (a subset) but on the 25 marker test, they only matched on 16 markers. That is why Sara is concerned that the tester either did not do the test correctly or there is a different paternal relationship in his lineage.

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

Oh_Mama_Mia — 2009-09-18 08:11:58Z

Glad you planted your tires here in Jax on a more permanent basis. Hope to meet you some day :)

In speaking with Jean, she said there are some nephews who are male Harris's, but says they would not likely do the test - said they are hillbilly's in the swamps... LOL. I will work on her to at least get a message to them to ask and beg if it requires it.

She did say her brother may not have done the test right. After all - he did have to re-take it, so, with so many markers off into space... he's either done it wrong or someone was foolin' around... or maybe someone in the line may have taken in someone's kid as their own ???

Anyway, I'm going to hope for a more solid corroboration of my findings... I do have this other little tidbit that is a corroboration - placing David's (1808) father to be of the same name as he, and in David's will mentioning Deborah Harris, and David Cook - and also in Deborah's will mentioning uncle David Cook and Enoch Gibbs and Aaron Harris. It would be nice to figure out who Rachel Goller is - haven't found anything yet.

Well - sleepy time has come - gonna run for now TTYL L)
Sara

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

Oh_Mama_Mia — 2009-09-18 07:49:14Z

Hello CW - it's ok buddy - get a grip! we all had to in figuring out all of this Harris side- an we all still have questions without answers :( There are so many with the same names - especially Thomas, William, Nathaniel, David, Abraham, John and so on that are all born around the same times and places. You really have to dig well and pay very close attention to detail just as Connie made her explanations. I wish you the best of luck in your line.

The funny thing is I an a descendant of Thomas Harris, who is the brother to William Nathaniel, and the research I have been working on is for my cousin - of whom I make a suspicious connection to John, son of William Nathaniel and his son David.

Best of luck with your digs - it's fun!
Sara

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

genesailor1 — 2009-09-18 02:09:15Z

Hey, Sara!

Where are you now? I lost touch. We bought a house in Jacksonville but still RV.

This David Harris b. abt 1808 -- maybe we should try to find another male Harris to do a DNA test. He may not have done the test correctly or it could rule out any other relationships. It does seem odd that this family isn't related being so close in the same area. But they could have come from Pennslyvania. It just seems odd that the kit has not match any others. Of course it took forever for Dad's kit to match and then to find it was from one of Nathaniel's other sons was pretty wild!

Keep in touch. Connie

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

genesailor1 — 2009-09-18 01:17:50Z

Hi, Pat. I have been researching my Harris lineage for over 25 years and I believe I can clear up a couple of things.

William "Nathaniel" Harris was married twice. First to Mariam Brooks in about 1715 and they had 4 daughters. She died in Feb 1722 and he married Elizabeth Harris (believed to be her maiden name) in 1722 and they had 6 sons and 2 daughters. Their son David who was a twin to Jonathan married Mary Ewing and died in 1770 leaving 3 children. Mary then married Jonathan Diament.

Nathaniel's family:
This is the Bible record of Nathaniel Harris shown exactly as it is written in the Bible, his Bible is at the Vineyard Genealogy Society library according to Wayne? who provided this information.

Nathaniel Harris, b. Oct 8, 1693, d. Nov. 2 1775

M 1st Miriam Brook She b. Aug. 16, 1698, d. Feb 13, 1722

M 2nd Elizabeth

Children of Nathaniel and Miriam Harris

Mary, b. June 12, 1716 m. Samuel More (see More family)

Miriam b. Feb 20, 1717 (171 7/8)

Abigail b. March 16, 1720 m Alderman

Elizabeth b. Jan 16, 1721 (1721/2) m Clifton ? Bowen

Children of Nathaniel and Elizabeth Harris

Nathaniel b. May 27, 1723 D. Dec 3, 1797 M. Abigail Padgett

John b. Sept 29, 1725 wife Ruth ?

David, b. April 29, 1727

Johathan b. April 29, 1727

Noah b. July 16, 1729, d. 1777

Josiah b. Nov. 16, 1732

Ruth, b. June 10 1734

Hannah Harris, b. Sept 1738

Nathaniel's will abstract that is a bit confusing:
Will of Nathaniel Harris ---- 27 Jun 1770, of Hopewell, Cumberland County, New Jersey. Yeoman; will of. Son Nathaniel, 10 shillings; sons John, Jonathan, and Noah 10 shillings (first wife children) Son Josiah - Plantation where I live and my salt marsh in Greenwich; to grandson Ebenezer Harris - my lands which I bought of Edward Bullen and since of the NJ Society, except 20 acres at the north end which I give to my grandson David Harris, son of David Harris. My son David's widow shall enjoy the said lands while she remains my son's widow. To my daughter Hannah Ewing and daughter Ruth Whitticar (Whitaker?) 10 shillings (may be 10 pounds) each. To Abigail Alderman and Elizabeth Bowen each 5 shillings. Witness - John Wethern (Worthington) Maskell Ewing, Thomas Ewing, Jr. Proved 14 Nov 1775 - 8 Nov 1777, Inventory 196-6-7. Inventory done by Jacob Moore and Constant Peck. June 1777. Acct by John Buck and Mary Harris Executors of Noah Harris, deceased, who was executors of Nathaniel Harris.

David is said to have died without a Will on 20 Oct 1770 but Nathaniel's Will would indicate that he died before June 1770. Maybe that is the date it was presented to the court.

Now as far as Thomas Harris, the father of Wm. Nathaniel(and Thomas, Samuel and Mary). He was married to Ruth James. He died prior to 5 June 1697 when his estate was probated and listed his children and their ages. Based on that information, he CAN NOT be the son of Daniel or David Harris and Mary Weld and grandson of Thomas Harris and Elizabeth Mills. Daniel Harris wrote his will in 1700 and mentioned a son Thomas. If he was Thomas' father, his will would have named Thomas as deceased and probably named at least his sons. I have tried to correct this Internet misinformation several times. In one case the woman just changed Thomas' death date of 1697 to 1700.

Thomas' parentage has been the subject of numerous genealogy magazine articles over the years. The latest addresses the possible fathers and Daniel was definitely ruled out.

Hope this makes sense of the information "out there." I welcome any male Harris descendant from Daniel and Mary Weld Harris to participate in a DNA test to disprove me!

Connie Harris Bradshaw

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

Oh_Mama_Mia — 2009-09-17 19:24:57Z

Hiya connie - good to hear from you!

I just don't know what to think!!!
I have documentation from Charles through David and Deborah, and in Deborah's will it lists a brother of David and a brother in law of David as executors.
I spoke with Jean and asked if anyone in the family was fooling around and she had no idea whether or not that was going on. I just find this really strange!

Can you see the logic in that previous post? I wish I were there to do some ground work.

Sara

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

ChekWriter — 2009-09-17 19:01:55Z

Very Good. Thank you for listing them for me.

Did notice earlier today, that parts and parcel of this family are on www.rootsweb.ancestry.com but not all together. Dates and names slightly off, but basically the same.

Says that David and Mary EWING are son of Nathaniel HARRIS and Elizabeth, on one file, and on others is son of Nathaniel and Miriam BROOKS. So guess need to put your heads together on them.

Nathaniel son of Thomas and Ruth JAMES. Thomas son of David HARRIS and Mary WELD, son of Thomas HARRIS and Elizabeth HILLS, daughter of George HILLS/HILLES.

But if you say, the DNA testing does not match up, then this information is now incorrect.

Also noticed that David and Hannah are brother and sister, and both married EWING children. David to Mary
and Hannah to Joshua. At least that is what some have posted "out There".

Its a little bit confusing as one puts that the one spouse of David's had 8 children. and the other spouse had 4 daughters. But that is not what is listed on their family pages.

That is why I was inquiring. Just wished to kind of get them straight as they might be, at least on my MISC MILLS files.

Did note that David and Mary EWING HARRIS are on 43 data bases on www.rootsweb.ancestry.com.

Pat
cw

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

genesailor1 — 2009-09-17 14:59:55Z

David who married Mary Ewing is my family and is included in Group 26 .
The oldest known ancestor is Thomas Harris (of Long Island) who died in 1697 in Connecticut. The probate of his estate named three sons and one daughter. The three sons were found in Salem County/Cumberland County and were
listed on a 1715 muster

This David b. abt 1808 is not related based on DNA testing (kit 34495) and is still in the unmatched Harris Y-DNA Project Results.

David HARRIS d.Bef 21 Apr 1812-,Salem,NJ
+Deborah COOK b.Abt 1775-of Upper Alloways Creek,Salem,NJ;m.22 Sep
1800;d.Bef 11 Mar 1814-of Mannington,Salem,NJ
David Harris born about 1807 in Salem County, NJ d. Bef 1880
+Mary Ann ERNEST b.Abt 1808-of,Salem,NJ;m.1 Oct 1829;d.Bef 1900-,Salem,NJ
Josiah Smith Harris b. 20 Mar 1838 in Salem County, NJ d. bef 1910 Salem,
NJ
+Sarah E. TAYLOR b.Abt 1842-NJ;m.24 Sep 1861;d.Bef Apr
1900-Quinton,Salem,NJ
Smith Harris born 12 Jan 1865 in Upper Alloways Creek Twp,Salem,NJ;d.1916
+Elizabeth BROWN b.Feb 1869-Of,Salem,Salem,NJ;m.Abt 1889;d.1933
Wilbert C. Harris b. 20 Mar 1890 in Quinton, Salem NJ, d. Jan 1967 in
Salem, Salem, NJ
+Erma BELL b.Feb 1894-NJ;m.Abt 1911;d.Abt 1956-Salem,Salem,NJ
Millard J. Harris b. 30 Mar 1918 in Quinton,Salem, NJ, d. 1988 Bridgeton,
Cumberland, NJ
+sp: Flora May STREMMEY
.

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

ChekWriter — 2009-09-12 00:48:52Z

Was he son of David HARRIS and Mary EWING B: ca 1725 of Cumberland NJ ???
I seem to have this couple on my MISC MILLS file.

cw
HARRIS seems to be a surname that match up via DNA testing, on 12 marker compared to my MILLS family descendant.

EWING - MILLS - FITHIAN - etc seem to be related also via marriages.

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

Oh_Mama_Mia — 2009-09-11 17:23:57Z

Hey Andrea! good to hear from you again. Check this out! I just got 2 books with lots of pictures in them (borrowed)

one called FOND REFLECTIONS and the other is HOW DEAR TO MY HEART. Isn't Dilks one of your family names or was that Timmy's

Re: David Harris b: abt 1808

Oh_Mama_Mia — 2009-09-10 22:37:46Z

Putting it all together...

Wills of David and his wife Deborah:

Not Dated. David Harris. Sons to take two shares and daus. one share of landed estate. Moveable estate to widow after debts are paid. To Elizabeth Harris, my first wife's dau., 67 cents and no more. Exec. wife, Deborah Harris and David Cook. Wit. Samuel Brick, Henry Mongar, and Beulah Draper. proved Apr 21, 1812
1. H. Stanley Craig, Salem County Wills, Vol 1 & 2 recorded in the Office of the Surrogate at Salem, New Jersey : 1831-1860., Craig, H. Stanley,. Merchantville, N.J.. H.S. Craig. 1984. b-28 salem county wills page 49

1. H. Stanley Craig, Salem County Wills, Vol 1 & 2 recorded in the Office of the Surrogate at Salem, New Jersey : 1831-1860., Craig, H. Stanley,. Merchantville, N.J.. H.S. Craig. 1984., b-135, proved 3/11/1814, Ancestry.com, www.ancestry.com.
1814, Feb 27. HARRIS, DEBORAH, Upper Alloways Creek.
To dau. Mary Sheets, house and lot I now live on and household goods. To dau. Esther Harris, household goods. To 3 youngest children, Abel, Ruth, and David, remainder of estate. Exec. uncle David Cook. Wit. Enoch Gibbs, Rachel Goller and Aaron Harris.
Proved Mar 11, 1814. B-135.

As listed in Deborah's will...
** ENOCH GIBBS is the husband of HEPZIBAH HARRIS, who is the daughter of JOHN HARRIS and ESTHER BALLINGER.
** DAVID HARRIS is the son of JOHN HARRIS and RUTH TEST. Ruth died in Aug 1774 when David was 12. His father remarried in Dec 1775 to ESTHER BALLINGER. Hepzibah Harris Gibbs was their first daughter.
** AARON HARRIS is also son of JOHN HARRIS and ESTHER BALLINGER

David Haris's 2nd wife was Deborah Cook, daughter of Eldad Cook and Deborah Bowen.
David and Deborah had issue:
Mary (m: George Sheets)
Esther
Abel
Ruth
David Harris (b: about 1806, m: Mary Ann Ernest)

WooHoo! After so many years of researching this, I finally made the connections!