Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers
I am desperately seeking the identity of a Mr. Spencer who married about 1817 in Canada a nineteen year old girl named Ruth W. Cooper of Hallowell, Prince Edward County, Ontario. They had two sons: Obediah Cooper Spencer b. 1818 Canada, and another son b. ca. 1821-1825 whose name is unknown. Sometime between 1820-early 1826 Mr. Spencer either died, divorced, or abandoned his wife. She remarried Henry V. Weeks of Hallowell and moved to Oswego, NY by Spring 1826.
Any information, hints, clues, or tips on how to find information in the Bay of Quinte on these people will be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers
I don't have any info for you, but it caught my eye that Ruth W. had a son Obediah Cooper. I have been trying to track down my gggrandfather, Obediah Cooper, and I wonder if Ruth could have been his sister. The dates seem to match up. Obediah may have married Mahala Hicks, daughter of Edward Hicks, and a Minaker. Have you found any more on Ruths' family? Thanks.
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers
Yes, I believe that Ruth W. Cooper was the aunt of your Obediah Cooper who was a grandson of the Obediah Cooper who came to Canada in 1802.
The Obediah Cooper who came to Hallowell, Prince Edward County, Ontario, Canada in 1802 was without question previously an inhabitant of Fishkill, Dutchess Co. NY. My identification of him as being the son of John Cooper by the second of his three wives Ruth Wiltsie has been challenged by some descrepancies. John Cooper of Fishkill, NY was the eldest son of Obediah Cooper, tailor, of Albany, NY, the progenitor of this line. The first Obediah Cooper was the grandfather of no fewer than six other Obediah Coopers! And the name continued to be passed on and on, so it gets quite maddening to sort them all out.
Anyway, Obediah Cooper who came to Hallowell in 1802 was married twice. His first wife I have identified as Sarah Poyer, daughter of Thomas Poyer 2nd of Dutchess County, NY. By her he had two sons, named John Cooper and Thomas Cooper. According to "Pioneer Life on the Bay of Quinte", Thomas Cooper married (to whom is not mentioned) and went to New York State. His children were Sarah, John, Obediah, & Catherine. John Cooper, son of Obediah & Sarah Poyer Cooper, and brother of Thomas, married in Canada in 1803 Mehitabel Bull and had a large family that mostly stayed in the area, including a son, you guessed it, named Obediah. This Obediah, son of John & Mehitabel Bull Cooper, married Rebecca Burlingame and stayed in Prince Edward County.
Obediah Cooper of Fishkill and Hallowell married secondly before he came to Canada a widow who I have tentatively identified as Mary Schut Van Vlack. My theory about her identity is disputed but I have been gathering evidence for it and won't elaborate here. Any way, Obediah Cooper and his second wife Mary had more children: James, Ruth W., and a Mary (Polly) who died young and unmarried. (The "Catherine" mentioned in the "Pioneer Life on the Bay of Quinte" was in my opinion Mary's daughter by her first marriage.) I believe that James is your ancestor and Ruth W. mine. James Cooper (1796 Fishkill, NY - 18 Aug 1879 Hallowell, Ontario) also married twice: his 2nd wife Nancy White was the mother of his daughters Elizabeth and Hannah M. Cooper. James' first wife Hannah Hare was the mother of Lucinda Rilla, Mary, Huldah, and Obediah. I believe it was this last Obediah who m. 2ndly Mahala Hicks and is the ancestor you mention.
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers
Thanks so much for your reply. There was talk in my family that the Coopers migrated between New York and Canada, which your extensive research seems to verify. After I print out your message, and have a chance to digest all of your information, I'll know better if my dates, and places work.
Again, thank you.
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers: re Cooper and Van Vlack
Many thanks for this enlightening explanation of the Cooper family tree. My gg grandmother was Lucinda Rilla Cooper (m. Wm. Henry Huff in 1841), daughter of James Cooper and Hannah Hare. That makes me an interested party to the identity of James Cooper's mother. What do you have on Mary Schut Van Vlack? Kind regards, Martha Nakajima
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers: re Cooper and Van Vlack
I'm afraid I don't have much on Mary Schut Van Vlack Cooper herself. I have spent most of my time and energy on trying to identify her children, and consequently know more about the Van Vlacks than I do the Schuts. It is also not entirely clear that her maiden name really was Schut, since her name was spelled differently every time it appeared in her six older children's baptismal records, but Schut appears to be the consensus among those who've seen the manuscripts.
Based on the birthdates of her children, she was born between 1750 and 1757. The 1800 Fishkill census suggests that Mary and Obediah were born before 1755. Obediah was probably born between 1753-1755. Mary and Obediah were married sometime between 1790 (census) and 1794 (deed) in Fishkill. It was the second marriage for both.
I don't know who Mary's parents were, but given the extraordinarily consistent adherence of the Coopers to their family naming patterns, I'm betting heavily that Mary had a close male relative named James or Jacobus for whom her son was named. Mary and Obediah's children were: Mary "Polly" b. ca. 1790-1794, d. unm. & bur. in Hallowell. James (1796-1879) m. 1stly Hannah Hare & 2ndly Nancy White Ruth W. (1798-1882) m. 1stly a Mr. Spencer & 2ndly Henry V. Weeks
Mary married firstly, about 1771 Henry (Hendrick, Henricus, etc.) Van Vlack (Van Vleck, Van Vlecheren, etc.) II (1747- after 1787). Henry had a brother named John who married Elizabeth Brinckerhoff, and this is where all the confusion starts because both couples had several children of the same names in each family. In that fascinating but highly error-prone compilation known as 'Pioneer Life on the Bay of Quinte', the statement is made that Henry Van Vlack, son-in-law of Gilbert Palen, came to Hallowell as did his "sister" Mary who became the second wife of Obediah Cooper. On this basis, some genealogists decided that Mr. Palen's son-in-law must be Henry John Van Vlack, who did have a sister named Mary. But in 'The Bull Genealogy' Henry Van Vlack came to Hallowell with his "step-father" Obediah Cooper, and I believe that it was Henry's mother Mary and not his sister who married Obediah Cooper, making Mr. Palen's son-in-law Henry Van Vlack III, and not his cousin Henry John Van Vlack.
In the interests of brevity, I will give my interpretation of the children of the two Van Vlack families without further comment, but I admit that you will find this nowhere else.
Children of Jan (John) H. & Elizabeth Brinckerhoff Van Vlack:
Cornelia b. 1769 Mercy "Maritje" (1771-1852) m. 1791 Francis Berry Henry (1774-1812) m. 1799 Polly Vantine Lena (1777-1787) Elizabeth (1779-1853) m. 1796 Cornelius J. Luyster Mary b. 1782 Abraham b. 1784 m. 1806 Ann Flavelling John (1785-1872) m. 1804 Elizabeth Wright Jane b. 1790 m. 1815 John Bloomer
Children of Henry II and Maria Schut Van Vlack:
Elizabeth b. 1772 Aaltje b. 1774 Cornelia b. 1776 d. in infancy Henry III (1778-1856) m. Fishkill NY 26 Nov 1800 Catherine Palen Cornelia "Caty" (1780-1869) bur. near Manchester Bridge, Poughkeepsie, NY m. Fishkill NY 22 Sep 1800 Robert C. Osborne Annatje b. 1782 (Possibly the Hannah Van Vleck who m. Fishkill 1797 James Weeks. Hannah Weeks is bur. in Hallowell. Her widower James went to Oswego with his son Henry and daughter-in-law Ruth. By suggesting that Hannah's mother might be Mary S. V. V. Cooper I am posing some rather alarming family dynamics that were not implausible in 1826 but are not pleasant to consider in the present age.)
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers: re Cooper and Van Vlack
Very interesting research in original sources. Do you live in NY? A second marriage for both Mary and Obediah would account for her rather advanced age at the birth of those children. I'm still digesting the rest of this. Many thanks.
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers: re Cooper and Van Vlack
Yes, in our time a fourteen year old girl is more likely to have a child than a forty-seven year old woman, but in the past the reverse was the case.
And I do live in western NYS, near Lake Erie.
Good Luck.
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers
I am still seeking the identity of this Mr. Spencer. DNA testing has shown that he does not match descendants of the 4 Spencer brothers of early New England from whom all the contemporary Spencers of Ontario descended. However, there is a very distinct possibility that Mr. Spencer was the son of a MISS Spencer, before her marriage. If anyone knows of a Miss Spencer who had a son born in Prince Edward or Northumberland Counties in the 1790s, please let me know. Because Mr. Spencer's DNA DOES match an allied family in that time and place! Coincidence? 50% chance.
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Re: Attention Bay of Quinte Spencers
Obediah3 Cooper's (John2, Obediah1) second son, Thomas P.4 Cooper was married in the 1st & 2nd Presbyterian Church in New York City on 16Dec1800 to Sarah Davidson. I can confirm that their sons' names were Obediah5 Cooper and John Davidson5 Cooper. Obediah5 Cooper was the official weigher for the city of New York. These Coopers lived in Brooklyn and are buried there in Greenwood Cemetery.
Mary Van Vlack Cooper's maiden name was Sloot/Sloat/Slote and not Schutt.
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