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Kathleen Elizabeth Downer and son Phillip

Kathleen Elizabeth Downer and son Phillip

Posted: 19 Jul 2015 2:31PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Downer
According to my grandfather, Walter Francis Downer, one day he and his younger brother, Phillip, came home to find a note stating his mother had gone to the USA. He ended up living with his uncle George and his brother went into an orphanage. However, on the U.S. Federal Census of 1930 for Lynn, Essex, Massachusetts Kathleen and Phillip appear together having emigrated in 1918. My great grandfather, Alfred, died in 1911. This is a bit confusing as the family thought she had gone to NY as a chef. Can anyone enlighten me?

Re: Kathleen Elizabeth DOWNER and son Phillip

Posted: 19 Jul 2015 5:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: DOWNER
Hi - You know that your GGrandfather Alfred DOWNER - passed away in 1911.
Have you searched Border Crossing - for Kathleen DOWNER - pre 1918 - when it appears Kathleen and son Phillip DOWNER emigrated to the USA
Perhaps the son Phillip DOWNER - did stay in a form of Orphanage - until Kathleen - could get their lives in order. Do you know the names of any orphanages - in the location where Kathleen lived - where Alfred had passed away ?
Researched through the brother George?

Re: Kathleen Elizabeth Downer and son Phillip

Posted: 20 Jul 2015 12:38AM GMT
Classification: Query
August 31 1920 Entry card into Canada

DOWNER, Kathleen Elizabeth, aged 44, widow, occupation: cook, intended occupation: domestic employment, birthplace: Oldway Staffordshire, British, Church of England, previous entry: no, money in possession $25.00, can read and write, passage paid by employer Mrs Gates James Street, London Ontario, nearest relative: Son, Walter F Downer 8 Morris Street Southampton.

There is no Kathleen Downer on 1921 Canadian census. Checked under her name and also any Gates living in London.
No Kathleen Downer or Philip on US 1920 census.
1921 UK census is not on line yet. There is apparently a 'hundred year rule' regarding releasing of UK census now.

1911 census Alfred, Kathleen, Walter Francis and Philip are living in Southampton. Walter was 11 and Philip was 2.
Perhaps she sent for Philip after she got settled.

There is one Philip Downer on 1940 census US living in Ohio with wife Agnes and several children. No Kathleen Downer listed.

If Philip was born in 1899 or so he should be listed in WW1.

One Philip Downer in the UK, Army Roll of Honour 1939 -1945

Name: Philip Downer
Given Initials: P
Rank: Gunner
Death Date: 10 Jun 1943
Number: 1543081
Birth Place: Southampton
Residence: Southampton
Branch at Enlistment: Royal Artillery
Theatre of War: Malaya
Regiment at Death: Royal Artillery
Branch at Death: Royal Artillery

Re: Kathleen Elizabeth Downer and son Phillip

Posted: 20 Jul 2015 12:41AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi,
I expect you have this information already.

FreeBMD Website - Marriages Dec 1897
Alfred Downer
Kathleen Elizabeth Wood
Southampton, Vol 2c, Page 93

FreeBMD Website - Births Dec 1899
Walter Francis Downer, Southampton, Vol 2c, Page 32

FreeBMD Website – Births Jun 1908
Philip Downer, Southampton, Vol 2c, Page 36

Wonder if this is the death of Kathleen Downer

Deaths Dec 1953
Kathleen E. Downer, Age 77
Southampton, Hampshire, England, Vol 6B, Page 606

Re: Kathleen Elizabeth Downer and son Phillip

Posted: 20 Jul 2015 12:48AM GMT
Classification: Query
Kathleen made a few trips between England and New York. I didn't find a return when she made her last voyage in 1931.

Canada, Ocean Arrivals
Date of Arrival: 12 Sep 1920
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Kathleen Elizabeth Downer, Age 44, Female, Widowed, Occ: Cook, Intended Occupation: Domestic Employment, Born Oldbury, Staffs, British, Church of England, Object of coming to Canada: Domestic Work; Ever lived in Canada: No; Money in possession: $25.00, Can read and Write, By whom was passage paid: Employer, Intend to remain permanently in Canada: Yes, Destined to Employer (crossed out is Mr. Sherwood ?? Ottawa) and replaced with Mr. Gates, St. James St., London, Ont.
Nearest relative Kin country from whence passenger came: Son Walter F. Downer, 8 Morris Rd., Southampton

Canadian Passenger Lists
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Date of Arrival: 11 Sep 1920
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Ship: Megantic
Kathleen Elizabeth Downer, Age 44, Widow, Destination: London, Occ: Cook, Domestic, Church of England

Index to Alien Arrivals at Canadian Atlantic and Pacific Seaports, 1904-1944
Kathleen Downer, Age 44, Arrival Year: 1920, Arrival Country: USA

Philip was not traveling with Kathleen.

In 1923 Kathleen travels to Southampton and returns to New York:

UK Incoming Passenger Lists
Port of Departure: New York, New York, USA
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ship: Leviathan
Arrival Date: 27 Oct 1923
Kathleen Downer, going to 37 Cranberry Avenue, Southampton, 3rd Class, Occ: Cook, Age 47, Country of last Permanent Residence: USA

UK, Outward Passenger Lists
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship: Ohio, Shipping Lines: Royal Mail Steam Packet Co.
Date of Arrival: 9 Nov 1923
Kathleen Downer, Last UK Address: Dorset Ho?se, Cranbury Terr, So’ton, Occ: Chef, Age 47, Country intended for permanent address: USA

New York, Passenger Lists
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship: Ohio
Arrival Date: 17 Nov 1923
Kathleen Downer, 47, Chef, Last Permanent Address: New York, USA, Contact: Brother, Mr. Alfred Wood, 32 Broad EyE. Stafford

In 1928 Kathleen makes another trip to Southampton and returns:

UK Incoming Passenger Lists
Port of Departure: New York, New York, USA
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ship: Homeric, Shipping Line: White Star Dominion Line
Arrival Date: 13 July 1928
Kathleen Downer, Travelling to 47 Hatherly Rd., Southampton, Domestic, Ager 52

UK, Outward Passenger Lists
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship: Majestic, White Star Line
Kathleen Downer, Last UK Address 47 Atherley Road, Southampton, Domestic

UK, Incoming Passenger Lists
Port of Departure: New York, New York, USA
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ship: Berengaria
Arrival Date: 17 June 1931
Kathleen Downer, Traveling to Shirley, So’ton, Cook, Age 55, Last Permanent Address: USA

New York, New York, Index of Declarations of Intent, 1907-1924 (on ancestry.ca)
From Index only: Name: Kathleen Elizabeth Downer, Declaration Volume: 680, Page 54

Re: Kathleen Elizabeth Downer and son Phillip

Posted: 20 Jul 2015 11:02AM GMT
Classification: Query
That was the correct Phillip. He died on the Burma-Siam railway in 1943 and is buried in Thailand. his elder brother was born in 1899 and ran away to RNVR service on motor gunboats in London, lying about his age.

Re: Kathleen Elizabeth Downer and son Phillip

Posted: 20 Jul 2015 11:08AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for all this information, she was a busy lady. I didn't have the info about her brother, only her father, Thomas, from her marriage certificate. That will be useful. She died in Southampton, England, having come back to the UK to live with Walter.
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