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Brien/Bryant

Brien/Bryant

Posted: 28 Apr 2013 2:14PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 3 Feb 2015 1:33AM GMT
Surnames: LOBBAN
Looking for the family of Mary Brien who married William Lobban in Northumberland County on Nov 24, 1842. According to the marriage record they were both from Chatham. She signed with a mark and the name was spelled Brien. According to death records for their children her maiden name could have been Bryant or O'Brien.

Re: Brien/Bryant

Posted: 28 Apr 2013 8:12PM GMT
Classification: Query
The marriage record of her daughter, Helen (Nellie) 'Loban' also gives her as Mary Bryant. One might think that the majority of records give her maiden name as Bryant but there are problems. For example, in 1851, there is no indication of a Bryant family in Chatham Parish nor in Northumberland Co. Nor do the 1865 and 1867 directories indicate such a family.

On 4JUN1823 William Bryant of Chatham m. Chatham Phoebe, the widow of Dan' Hart; so there were other Bryant's in the area. William Bryant d. Andover, Victoria Co., NB MAY1853. In 1851, in Andover Parish, he was age 50 and 'Phebe' was age 51. With them was 'Phebe Loban' (12), a 'lodger', but in the circumstances likely a granddaughter. Phoebe, Sr. d. Tobique, Andover Parish 19JUN1867 at the home of James Knight. She was age 69 years and 5 months.

James Bryant of the Miramichi m. Fredericton FEB1827 Sarah Avery. James was in Chatham in 1845 when his son, James William Bryant, d. MAY1845 age 2 years and 11 months. James was likely the James Bryant, "an old inhabitant of Miramichi", who d. Portland, Maine 6OCT1859. Sarah M. Bryant d. 3 Mecklenburg St., Saint John 22JAN1869 age 64 years. It would appear that James was a brother of William rather than a son.

Not much but it appears, at a guess, that brothers, William and James Bryant, lived in Chatham Parish in the early 1800's but moved to Victoria Co. and Maine by 1851. Mary (b. ca. 1819) would likely be the daughter of one; probably William by a 1st marriage. In 1851, Mary is, however, given as arrived in NB 1835 in the 1851 census. William Bryant, in 1851, is given as arrived 1821. This does not exclude the hypothesis, but certainly makes it difficult. Certainly William was associated with the Lobban's.

Elizabeth Bryant m. Chatham JUN1835 Edward Lobban. Edward may be the Edwd Lobban b. ca. 1804 in Chatham in 1851. He is given as arrived in 1823 where William was b. in NB. Gain an apparent contradiction.

I do not have time for more now.

Thomas.

Re: Brien/Bryant

Posted: 28 Apr 2013 11:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you Thomas. Muddying the water a bit more...there is a death record for a Margaret Laban--informant sister Mary, parents William Loban,(Chatham) and Mary Cocherane (PEI). Based on the date of death, and an unsourced death notice, I suspect that this is likely Marjorie Loban d/o William and Mary.

According to the 1861 census Mary 'Brien' was born in PEI. I have not found a baptism for their oldest child(Martha, b1843)or another marriage for Mary.



Re: Brien/Bryant

Posted: 30 Apr 2013 6:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
I kind of saw the PEI thing coming and from what I have seen her maiden name was Bryant and she was b. PEI. I also suspect she was related to the Weldford Parish, Kent Co., NB Bryant's, also from PEI. Some of their relatives married some of my Murray cousins in Bedeque but I could find nothing relevant. You probably have gone through most of this, and I could not find anything definite but I'll paste in the notes of my search in case anything is useful.

Thomas.


So far, it seems as if Mary Bryant b. PEI ca. 1819-21, m. Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., NB 26NOV1842 William Lobban (b. ca. 1812-3, d. Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., NB 14APR1882 age 69 years), possibly a s/o Thomas and Jane Loban, was a Bryant. Also that there were other members of her family in Chatham Parish roughly between 1821 and 1851. Mary is said to have arrived in NB in 1835.
A newspaper announcement has them married in Chatham Parish 26NOV1842. She is given as Mary 'Brien'. The 24NOV1842 date might be a reference to a marriage bond or license.
Her connection to the others is difficult to determine. These may include:

William Bryant b. ca. 1801, d. Andover, Victoria Co., NB MAY1853, m. Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., NB 4JUN1823 Phoebe Daniels (b. ca. JAN1797 ( ca. 1800), d. Tobique, Andover Parish, Victoria Co., NB 19JUN1867 age 69 years and 5 months; m. 1st Daniel Hart (Hartt)).
The estate of Daniel Hartt of Chatham Parish was executed by Phoebe Hartt and John Lobban in 1823. John Lobban's wife, Elizabeth, d. Chatham Parish MAY1831 age 64 years. John Lobban b. ca. 1769, d. 9OCT1832, is said to have arrived in NB about 1822 from PEI. William is also said to have had brothers, John and Alexander, so there may have been two John Lobban's.
It seems possible that at least some of the Bryant's were connected to PEI as well. In 1881, Mary (60) was b. PEI. William 'Loban' (68) and the children were b. NB. In 1891, their daughters, Marjory (30), Mary (26) and Annie (19) were b. Nb as was their father and their mother was b. PEI.

James Bryant, d. Portland, Maine 6OCT1859, m. Fredericton, York Co., NB FEB1827 Sarah Avery (b. ca. 1805, d. 3 Mecklenburg St., Saint John 22JAN1869 age 64 years).

Edward Lobban b. ca. 1803-4, d. at the home of his son-in-law, J. M. Wright, Tobique, Andover Parish, Victoria Co., NB 14APR1877 age 74 years, m. Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., NB JUN1835 Elizabeth Bryant (b. ca. 1815, d. Chatham Parish 21FEB1840 age 25 years). Their 7 month old daughter. Lydia Elizabeth Loban, Bpt. 5JUL1840, died 21AUG1840. It appears that Elizabeth died of childbirth.
Edward may be the Edwd Lobban b. ca. 1804 in Chatham in 1851. He is given as arrived in 1823.
I wonder of Phoebe Lobban b. ca. 1832 was not Edward's daughter? this seems probable as, in 1871, in Andover Parish, James Michael Wright (ca. 1830) and 'Phebeo' E. (ca. 1839; (Phoebe Elizabeth) had Edward E. (16), 'Anny' E. (14), William J. (12), Wayman (8; Weyman Clifford Wright b. 7FEB1864), and 'Frences' J. (daughter, 3). Of these, Edward E. Wright (27JUL1854 (1855?)- 22JUN19380 was the s/o James and Phoebe ('Loban) Wright. John William Wright (6JAN1859-21AUG1946) had the same parents. Although, in later life, she was Phoebe Elizabeth Lobban she was baptized as Edward's daughter 4MAR1838 as Phoebe Bryant Lobban. She was b. 24DEC1837. Edward was baptized as an adult 20AUG1835 as M. Edward Lobban.
Edward did have a son, William John Dean Lobban b. 11MAR1836. A daughter m. _____ Stirling. Apparently she and her sister, Phoebe (Lobban) Wright, were living in New York by 1894. Another daughter may have been Mrs. Parker.
There was a Bryant Wright (11AUG1921-14AUG19210, s/o Herman Wright in Victoria Co.
Since Phoebe Lobban appears to be the daughter of Edward Lobban, then probably Edward's 2nd (?) wife,, Elizabeth Bryant, appears to be a sister of William Bryant. Phoebe, then, would be (in some fashion) William Bryant's niece.

Jane Miller b. ca. 1831, a niece of William and Mary (Bryant) Lobban in 1851.

That Mary Bryant was b. in PEI ca. 1819-21 suggests that she may have been a daughter of William and Maria (Cochrane) Briant of Richmond, PEI. William and Maria had a daughter, Mary Ann Briant b. Lot 25 2SEP1821, baptized Richmond Parish Church of England Church 16JUL1823. The couple are also given as William and Maria (Coughlen) Bryant and another daughter was:

Johanna Bryant b. Lot 16 22SEP1832, baptized 25APR1833.

At:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/bryant/messages/3447.html
Mary Ann, d/o William Patricious Bryant and Maria Coughlan is given as m. George McRae. It also suggested that they began in NB, and after William's death, Maria remarried and moved back to NB; apparently to Kent Co., NB. See also:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...


Children of William and Mary (Bryant) Lobban were:
1. MARTHA LOBBAN b. ca. 1843.
2. THOMAS A. LOBBAN b. ca. 1844.
3. MARJORY (MARGERY) A. LOBBAN b. ca. 1846-8 (ca. 1861?).
4. CATHARINE (KATE) LOBBAN b. ca. 1848-53, m. _____ SNOW.
5. ELIZA B. LOBBAN b. ca. 1852-6 (PEI ca. 1865?), m. Amherst, Cumberland Co., NS 15MAR1893 ROBERT LARKIN (b. PEI ca. 1855; m. 1st _____), s/o Alex and Flora Larkin.
When they married, Robert was living in North Dakota. Eliza B. Loban is given as b. Charlottetown, but I rather suspect that this may be an error for Chatham. She was also given as age 28 years, but again, this is not clear and I suspect the age is not accurate especially as, 2 years before, she was age 35. Robert was likely b. Charlottetown but he is just given as b. PEI.
In 1891, Eliza B. and Nellie Loban lived with their widowed sister, Kate Snow, in Amherst. Their mother was b. PEI.
6. JOHN LOBBAN b. ca. 1854.
7. WILLIAM LOBBAN b. ca. 1856.
8. HELEN (ELLEN, NELLIE) LOBBAN b. Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., NB ca. 13MAR1858 (1858-9), d. 115 Lawrence St., Halifax, Halifax Co., NS 6DEC1936, m. Northumberland Co., NB 31DEC1896 FREDERICK CHARLES WILTSHIRE (b. Bedford, England ca. 1866), s/o George and Ann (Hulatt) Wiltshire.
In her death registration Frederick stated that she was the daughter of William 'Laban' b. NB and of Mary O'Brien b. PEI. I find it remarkable that he knew Mary was b. PEI and not surprising that he might remember Mary;'s maiden name incorrectly.
9. MARY LOBBAN b. 1861 (ca. 1862, ca. 1855?), d. Chatham, Chatham Parish, Northumberland Co., NB 30SEP1933 age 72 years).
Mary's death registration not only gives her mother as Mary 'Bryan' but that her mother was b. Prince Edward Island. The information was given by her sister, Mrs. Fred Wiltshire of Chatham.
J. ANNIE G. LOBBAN b. ca. 1872-3, m. Amherst, Cumberland Co., NS 31AUG1892 JAMES MITCHELL FALCONER (FALKNER) (b. Taunton, MA ca. 1870), s/o James and Nettie Falconer.

Re: Brien/Bryant

Posted: 2 May 2013 2:02PM GMT
Classification: Query
There's a lot there to think about. I agree that Mary was likely a Bryant and probably born PEI. That Mary and Elizabeth were related seems likely. There is an online tree that says Elizabeth was born in PEI but I've not found a source.

The witnesses on William and Mary's marriage are hard to read, the first almost impossible (James ?, Sr.), the second looks like Richard Small, a name I've not come across in North'd County but note that there are Smalls in Charlotte County.

(I did not see the Bryant/McRae connection coming...do you know if that McRae (George) was connected to the North'd County McRaes?)

Re: Brien/Bryant

Posted: 2 May 2013 3:03PM GMT
Classification: Query
correction: Elizabeth Bryant d/o William and Phebe was born in Chatham. I do not have a source for the birth of her daughter Pheobe E. (Wright).

Re: Brien/Bryant

Posted: 2 May 2013 10:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
As to George McRae being connected to the Northumberland Co., McRae's I would doubt it. The sense I get is that the NB families were descended from several British soldiers of the American Revolution; possibly related probably not. The PEI families I would anticipate were later arrivals after 1783, possibly after 1800. In 1881 there were 81 McRae's, not accounting for variations in spelling. This suggests not only a large family, but several families. They may have a common origin but I simply cannot get any relevant information that permits even a reasonable hypothesis.

A bit I missed:

William Patricious Bryant, m. Maria Coughlan (b. 23AUG1799; m. 2nd 25APR1833 John Bowser), d/o Thomas Coughlan.

I would suggest a query on George at:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/canada/princeedwardisland/
and at:
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.northam.canada.princee...

Thomas.

Re: Brien/Bryant

Posted: 2 May 2013 10:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
As for Phoebe's baptism, there is a microfilm reference at:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nbken/BaptNorth.html
That may be worth following up. This actually comes from:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nbken/
Use the second search engine as the first does not work.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nbken/DeathNorth.html
for example has Edward's wife. Elizabeth. This is on the same microfilm so there is evidence for Phoebe's parentage.

Thomas.
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