General - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Fless and Willwohl from Palanka

yugaya — 2013-05-22 05:58:35Z

I know your beautiful heritage website and have used information from it in the past to help me answer some questions from our boards.

My email is yugaya@gmail.com if you wish to forward any specific queries for your members or your own family.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Fless and Willwohl from Palanka

donauschwaben_1 — 2013-05-21 21:52:45Z

Great offer, thanks. I am the genealogist for the Trenton Donauschwaben (www.trentondonauschwaben.com). Many of our members came from Palanka or their ancestors did. My Bauer/Bohnert great-grandparents were from Palanka.

Dennis

Re: Need help with Yugoslavian ancestory

mstan21 — 2013-05-20 17:01:01Z

I tried two time to email Dr. Adnan Busuladžić at z.muzej@zemaljskimuzej.ba . His email address is not working. The email is returned to me with a failure error.

I will have to mail him my letter. Is this the way I should address to letter?
Zemaljski muzej Bosne i Hercegovine
Dr. Adnan Busuladžić
Zmaja od Bosne 3, 71000
Sarajevo, Bosna i Hercegovina

Re: Need help with Yugoslavian ancestory

mstan21 — 2013-05-20 16:54:11Z

Re: Fless and Willwohl from Palanka

yugaya — 2013-05-20 11:43:16Z

You are welcome, and if you need any specific look up from Bačka Palanka - I will be working on these records for another week or two extensively, and since the software this e-archive uses is superb, it takes me seconds to check a query or two on the side for someone else. :)

Just post a new message here or on "Rodoslovlje" free forum and I will try to locate a record to help you get started - best starting point are marriage records, because they contain information on both of the parents of the bride and the groom, their ages, as well as parish of origin ( place of birth).

Of immense importance to researchers documenting entire parishes/villages are also available Canonical visitations records - for Palanka the earliest one is from year 1767.

Also as primary original resource the records of confirmation can be used to cover earlier period for which vital records are not available( before 1826. in most cases) - for Bačka Palanka parish the earliest such records available are for the year 1793., and information on each individual is name, surname, age, and names of both parents.

This particular record in most cases takes you back to the generation of the original Donauschwaben settlers in the region that Kalocsa diocese covered in the past - northern Serbia and southern Hungary today.

Here you will find the full listing for this e-archive:

http://archivum.asztrik.hu/?q=oldal/feldolgozottsag-attekint...

Of interest for research of Bačka Palanka Donauschwaben community is also the online database of the records of Serbian Trade Association "Privrednik":

"-names of the employers who were Jewish, Hungarian, or German are in the database written using the orthography of their native languages, making it extremely useful for localized research of ancestors who belonged to these ethnic groups ."

- on this link you will find a search for all employers to which the cadets of "Privrednik" were sent as apprentices in Palanka, for the period 1900.-1944. :

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Palanka&f...

(click on *Naprijed* for more pages of results, the year is on the left second column, and name,trade and location of the employer is the column on the far right end. )

-how to use this online database and research it you can read here:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/serbian-trade-assoc...

Original paper records that were used for this database often include handwritten records, letters of recommendation and evaluation sheets written by the employers, but you can further explore them only in the state archive in Serbia where they are stored.

att:

-from earliest available confirmation record for Roman Catholic Church parish of Bačka Palanka, year 1793., obtained via Kalocsa diocese e-archive.

-page one from "Privrednik" database, search for employers from Palanka 1900.-1905.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society

Re: Fless and Willwohl from Palanka

donauschwaben_1 — 2013-05-20 01:04:07Z

Thanks for the info, Palanka Researcher.

Re: Stari Sivac

yugaya — 2013-05-19 21:36:58Z

You can find all church vital records - birth records, marriage records and death records for SIVAC village for the Roman Catholic Church online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/forum/vojvodina/kalocsa-roman-cat...

The records are for the period 1826-1922, and the village is listed under its name in Hungarian language - ÓSZIVÁC.

I reviewed birth and baptism records for Sivac from April 1920, and the birth record of your ancestor is not in there.

Consider as possibilities:

-family belonged to another denomination

-your information on birth date/year is incorrect ( something I see a lot with info that is copied/obtained from Familien Buch village resources of the Donauschwaben )

-he was not born in Sivac

att: birth and baptism records, Sivac, year 1920, April.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Jelaca.org -- history and linguistic origin of the name

yugaya — 2013-05-19 21:13:38Z

Origin and etymology of a surname are important pieces of information that can help complete the puzzle of your family history.

For history and etymology of any surname always please please please consult etymology dictionaries and onomastics studies IN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE your ancestors spoke, and in the relevant studies of the contact languages in a specific territory where a surname originated and was first documented.

Do that to avoid misunderstandings, misinterpretations and mistakes of documenting your family surname based on internet lay people's wildest theories, like this hilarious example I collected from former Yugoslavia genealogy boards:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/comment/4798#comment-4798

Thank You! :)))

***

For surnames,first names and root words from former Yugoslavia your bibles are these two dictionaries:

Petar Skok: Etimologijski rečnik hrvatskoga ili srpskoga jezika

Vuk Stefanović Karadžić : Srpski riječnik

***

Further onomastics, etymology and linguistic research resources that are online:

Croatian Academy of Science and Arts ( HAZU ) online library :

http://dizbi.hazu.hr/index.php

anthroserbia.org datatbase:

http://www.anthroserbia.org/Journals

Digital library of Serbia:

http://digitalna.nb.rs/

database of scientific papers and periodicals Serbia:

http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/

database of scientific papers and periodicals Croatia:

http://hrcak.srce.hr/?lang=en

digital library Slovenia:

www.dlib.si

Croatian language portal :

http://hjp.novi-liber.hr/index.php?show=search

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Searching for TAFFEE family

yugaya — 2013-05-19 18:29:27Z

Vrbas was a newer settlement and most people came from other villages in the region originally. I will try to locate the marriage record from 1901 or birth record from 1880, but so far I do not see any surname in that spelling in any of the records of the Roman Catholic Church Vrbas parish that are online, or in any other period records for Vrbas :

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Vrbas&fie...

- so the family may have belonged to another religion or the original surname spelling is different and you need to establish that before you can research further

Records for VRBAS for Roman Catholic Church are available online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive, and cover the period 1875-1945.

You can read more on that and find links how to register for this e-archive here:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/forum/vojvodina/kalocsa-roman-cat...

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Fless and Willwohl from Palanka

yugaya — 2013-05-19 17:21:39Z

Records for Roman Catholic Church from Bačka Palanka, Serbia are available now online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive.:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/forum/vojvodina/kalocsa-roman-cat...

They are available for period 1826-1922, with new records being added every year in accordance with the Hungarian data protection laws.

Since the birth record of Jakab Willwohl from 1902 lists that his father's parish of origin is Palanka too, and his mother is from Gajdobra which is also available in this archive, my recommendation for research is to research in this e-archive, and that way shed more light on the family history - full birth, marriage and death records are available online for the period I indicated.

Website of the archive with registration details:

http://archivum.asztrik.hu/?q=en/oldal/registration

Also researching possible links between families with same surname who emigrated from same place can be done in detail by browsing through these records.

-att: birth and baptism records, JAKAB WILLWOHL, year 1902, obtained via Kalocsa diocese e-archive.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: A Request For Help

yugaya — 2013-05-17 15:15:09Z

You are welcome and no worries about lack of info, I just never like to guess things when replying. :)

A few more things to consider:

- unless you have an original birth and baptism certificate or an official copy of the birth record from the old country consider the birth year from ship manifests&documents after emigrating as unconfirmed

-obtain all original naturalization documents for your ancestor to confirm the exact place of origin

-try to obtain photocopies or scans of the church records after emigrating, not the transcripts - in many of them, if emigrant was part of an ethnically profiled parish or congregation, priests noted down extremely valuable information like exact address in the old country. A household number will help you distinguish between families with same surname who lived in a same village.

-always have a native speaker review the information from original ship manifests, draft cards,letters and do not rely or indexes full of transcription errors

Good luck with your research!

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje

Re: A Request For Help

nsayatovich — 2013-05-17 13:08:25Z

Sorry about the lack of information. The name you recovered matches the time frame my great great grandfather came to America. You also gave me links and for that I owe you a great deal. Thank you so much.

Re: A Request For Help

yugaya — 2013-05-17 12:13:04Z

You will need to provide more information so that I or anyone else can help you with your research based on facts rather than guessing, starting with whether your ancestor emigrated or not, and what the ethnicity and religion of the family was.

If your ancestor emigrated:

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/engine/gold.php?uid=...

- based on ship manifests available at ellisisland.org. I found people with surname ŠAJATOVIĆ who emigrated to US from area of Žumberak in Croatia ( mostly from the village of Sošice). These families were Greek Catholic. If that is the family line you need to be researching church vital records are available online via familysearch.org but as far as I can see only for the period after 1885.:

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%...

-in these ship manifests I also found ŠAJATOVIĆ emigrants from Ludbreg and other places in Croatia. These emigrants were coming from ethnic Serbian families. They were Eastern Orthodox and lived in areas of Grubišno Polje, Jastrebarsko, Koprivnica, Križevci, Virovitica, Vukovar... If your ancestor belonged to any of these families you should start your research here:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/guide-researching-e...

For these families only fragments of records are available at familysearch.org :

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-28332-27802-35...

-----------------------------------------------------------

- valuable information for both of these lines of research can be explored in the records of the Serbian Trade Association via online database of the children who were through them sponsored and educated:

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Sajatovic&...

about Serbian Trade Association "Privrednik" and how to research and interpret the results in the online database:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/serbian-trade-assoc...

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

A Request For Help

nsayatovich — 2013-05-16 17:27:43Z

I am trying to track down my family history in Yugoslavia. I can get America somewhat ok, but once I get to my great great grandfather Nikola Sajatovic (born 1875) it dead ends. Can anyone here narrow my search to a country or area? Thank you for reading.

Re: Need help with Yugoslavian ancestory

mstan21 — 2013-05-16 16:52:26Z

Thank you for your help. I will email the director. I will let you know if I get a rely from his.
Marie

Re: Need help with Yugoslavian ancestory

yugaya — 2013-05-16 05:53:36Z

Family BUSULADŽIĆ from Trebinje area I found in the period records living in the village of BIHOVO at the time your ancestor was born - most people emigrated from villages rather than towns back then.

You should try contacting the web genealogy portal for Bosnia and Herzegovina:

http://www.rodoslov.ba/

contact:

e-mail: info@rodoslov.ba

They periodically publish call for relatives of certain families to contact them, best if they include your message too, that way you have more chances for descendants of the same family to see it and answer.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www. reodoslovlje.com

Re: Need help with Yugoslavian ancestory

yugaya — 2013-05-16 05:52:39Z

They thanked you for your inquiry, but other than the information you already have they are unable to help you with the biography of your grandfather further.

Try contacting dr Adnan Busuladžić, director of the National Museum of Bosnia and Herzegovina - surname you are researching is fairly rare and he may be able to help :

Zemaljski muzej Bosne i Hercegovine
Direktor muzeja: Dr. Adnan Busuladžić

Adresa: Zmaja od Bosne 3, 71000 Sarajevo, Bosna i Hercegovina

Telefon: + 387 33 668 027

Fax: + 387 33 262 710

E – mail: z.muzej@zemaljskimuzej.ba

http://www.zemaljskimuzej.ba/index-en.php

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Need help with Yugoslavian ancestory

mstan21 — 2013-05-16 01:22:44Z

Thank you for you help and suggestions.

I got email rely:

Postovana Marija,
Hvala Vam sto ste se javili. Nazalost, mi nemamo siru informaciju o
Busuladzicima, sem one koju ste procitali, te Vam u tom pogledu ne
mozemo ni pomoci oko biografije Vaseg djeda.
Lijep pozdrav.
Raif

I can't read it so I used a online translation website to help me.

George & Mary "Faynick" (Fenic) of 1940 NY City

biermajw — 2013-05-07 13:25:58Z

I seek info about the family of George "Faynick" (Fenic) who in the 1940 census lived on W. 100th Street in New York City. The listing includes:
George age 36 b. Yugoslavia
Mary age 27 b. NJ
Dorothy age 10 b. NY
John age 1 b. NY

Please reply directly to:

John Bierman
Dayton, OH
john_bierman@att.net

Re: Leon Altaras

incitatus — 2013-05-04 19:37:22Z

There are some Altars/Altarc surnames at
http://www.immigration-records.com.ar/argentina/r/immigratio...

Re: Bijela Stijena

ltripovich65 — 2013-05-04 11:07:32Z

Please check following link

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bijela_Stijena

I do genealogy research in former Yugoslavia.

Ljiljana Tripovich
ltripovich65@gmail.com

Re: Leon Altaras

yugaya — 2013-05-03 17:37:06Z

Surname spellings under which you will find records for this family in former Yugoslavia are ALTARAS and ALTARAC.

I have them listed in several public resources and period records.

The origin and family trees of the family branches from Novi Pazar, Serbia as well as other countries (Bosnia) may be difficult to trace back - from what I can see entire families from Serbia and Bosnia were killed as victims of Holocaust and died in concentration camp Jasenovac in Croatia.

There are at least twenty family members listed with place of last residence or birth under *Unknown* in the official Victims of War 1941-1945 census. They may be the family branch from Novi Pazar as the listing is under "Serbia".

I can provide you with full listing from that census, but because it may take me a whole day to extract all of the data please post a message or contact me via email yugaya@gmail.com if you need that information.

In other records that may be of yinterest are shop-owners in the records of Serbian Trade Association:

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Altaras&f...

year 1926, Altaras R.M., clothes shop, Belgrade
year 1927, Altaras I.Š.,tailor shop, Belgrade

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Altarac&f...

year 1933, Altarac Berta, hairdresser, Belgrade

and listing of the officially identified victims of Jasenovac concentration camp :

-search by typing the surname in spelling ALTARAC into the field "Prezime"(surname)

http://www.jusp-jasenovac.hr/Default.aspx?sid=7618

(you have to click on "slijedeća" link in the bottom right corner for the next page of results, there are fourteen pages of results for ALTARAC surname)

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: How to read or write Serbian origin of your name?

yugaya — 2013-05-02 23:38:54Z

Best non-scholarly guide I know of for pronunciation of the sounds of Serbian language intended for the native English speakers can be found in "Note on Pronunciation" at the beginning of the book "The Krajina Chronicle" by Srdja Trifkovic :

The Krajina Chronicle: A History of Serbs in Croatia, Slavonia and Dalmatia

http://www.amazon.com/Krajina-Chronicle-History-Slavonia-Dal...

( use the Click to LOOK INSIDE option to see it )

***

JERKOVIĆ surname among ethnic Serbs in period records for the second half of the XIX century and first half of the XX century, in case you stumbled onto this thread looking for information on that family :

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?startrow=0&t=&...

(click on "Naprijed" to see more pages of results)

Never make any conclusions in regard to ethnicity of people carrying a surname that was present among more than one ethnic group based on what is *typical* or *dominant* - it can only be confirmed based on period records and place of origin.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: paternal ancestors

yugaya — 2013-05-02 23:35:31Z

Original spelling is NEBRIGIĆ.

In Serbian Trade Association database of children who were sponsored by them there are three NEBRIGIĆ children that were their proteges for the period 1908 - 1933., all from SIBAČ / BUĐANOVCI place of origin.

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Nebrigi%C4%87...

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Kovacsics Etel Born in Bunyevac

yugaya — 2013-05-02 22:02:50Z

Here is the marriage record of KOVACSICS ETEL and SZALAI LÁJOS, from June 21st, 1899.

Her parents were ANTAL KOVACSICS and ERZSÉBET MEZEI, and she was born in Subotica.

She was 20 years old when she got married, which means she was born in 1879.

These records are from the St. Teréz parish ( the one that belongs to the cathedral, central parish), and her birth records should also be in the same register.

( Ha további kérdésed van, akkor írj a yugaya@gmail.com címre, bármelyik nyelvben :D )

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Kovacsics Etel Born in Bunyevac

yugaya — 2013-05-02 21:48:33Z

"First in regards to Bunjevac (Croatian J sounds like Y sounds like boonyahvahts) it is a region in the southern part of Hungary and what is now northern Serbia."

- IPA standards help us pronounce words in foreign languages accurately:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

***

Maria,

BUNJEVAC is the ethnonym your grandmother used to describe her origin in relation to the people and ethnic community she belonged to. It is not a region in any country.

My mom's family origin are Bunjevci from Subotica too.

To help you with your research - in case you did not have luck reviewing the microfilms for Subotica via LDS - more records for Subotica are now available to be researched online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive :

http://archivum.asztrik.hu/?q=en/oldal/registration

The records that are available are for the period until 1922. from the moment each parish was established ( that will depend when the temple was built), and for the earliest period full indexes of original records made by the diocese are available too, starting with the year 1687.

Specifics of researching ancestors from Subotica: you need to know which temple your ancestors belonged to - once you know that, you will also know which cemetery to look into to find their graves.

In these records you can, with a bit of navigating, trace back your ancestors to the big migrations of the Bunjevac people in 1683. - if any of your ancestral families arrived to Subotica with that migration, like mine did.

I will try to locate the marriage record of your grandmother to Szalay Lájos to provide you with a starting point for your research.

That record will have their age, names of their parents, whether they were married before or not, as well as their parish of origin (birth) in them.

All of these records are in Latin and Hungarian language.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Help :)

yugaya — 2013-05-02 19:39:11Z

You can research your ancestors online via Kalocsa diocese Roman Catholic Church e-archive:

http://archivum.asztrik.hu/?q=en/oldal/registration

Records available for Sonta are for the period 1826-1922 ( birth records only until 1921.), and parish is listed under the place-name in Hungarian language - SZOND.

You can use this record of marriage of his parents as a starting point - it states their birth dates and suggests they were both born in the same parish ( if they were born elsewhere that would have been noted).

-att: original marriage record of MULLION MÁTYÁS and VODENICSÁR KATALIN, year 1921., Sonta, Serbia.

Their first names and surnames in this record are written and *translated* into Hungarian language and spelling.

You will need to research more to confirm what was their ethnicity, and what the original spelling of these surnames was/is.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Looking for info on Julia Santo (1911-2000)

yugaya — 2013-05-02 17:59:38Z

Do you have her ship manifest? You should also look for documents from after emigrating which list her birthplace-naturalization papers,censuses...also if you have knowledge of her ethnicity that would help.

You do need information on her appr. birth year and at least appr. place of origin to be able to research her origin.

Is there any information that she came from former Yugoslavia territories in any official document ?

Have you researched other possible spellings of her surname like SZANTO ?

I would really love to help but you will need to dig up more info on your end. :)

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Update on Tips on doing genealogy research associated with Yugoslavia

yugaya — 2013-05-01 23:48:30Z

I added a few updates :

" Determine ethnic background "

- YES, and confirm it with the information about ethnicity from publicly available records for the period when your ancestor was born/emigrated. That will enable you to know exactly what records you need to search for and where, and where and how to look for descendants of the same family.

-Check if your ancestors were affiliated with any ethnic community or association after emigrating.

-Information about race and nationality from the ship manifests is in many cases useless - when it comes to people of former Yugoslavia region, things are much, much more complicated.

"First and last name"

LAST NAME - YES AND NO.
-Some families or surnames have a clearly pronounced ethnicity. Some don't.

-For those that are present among more than one ethnic group no sane person would dare say "it's a typical X or Y surname" without confirming the ethnicity based on place of origin and available period records.

" Often a first name will indicate or give a hint to an ethnic background"
YES AND A BIG NO.

YES
- Some first names are heavily ethnically coloured and are virtually found only among one ethnic group. Again needs to be confirmed in relation to a specific family or community and should never be taken as sole proof of anything.

A BIG NO:
- Because many people of many, many ethnicities from former Yugoslavia region emigrated from parts which were under Hungarian rule and administration, their first names were in official church and civil vital records replaced with the equivalent from Hungarian language until 1919. People were then issued with travel documents carrying these replaced first names - which are found normally only among ethnic Hungarians.

-Only period records kept in mother tongue in the native country will provide you with first names that you can look at and *know* the ethnicity of a person. Sometimes. :)

C: Places- YES AND NO.
" Did they indicate names of cities or village, or regions.
examples of city names: Belgrade, Ljubljana, Novi Sad, Podgorica, Pristina, Skopje, Zagreb
examples of regions which are now countries: Bosnia Hercegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Slovenia,Serbia"

YES:
-people who were part of a minority ethnicity on a certain territory - like Croats from Serbia or Serbs from Croatia would have in censuses after emigrating often declared their *ethnic* country as their *country of origin*.

NO:
-these same people would have spoken of the region centre in their homeland like Belgrade for Serbia or Zagreb for Croatia while at the same time not being a part of the majority ethnic group that is associated with these place-names.

"Ethnic Groups" NO.

-People often identified themselves geographically rather than ethnically, and people of different ethnicities would have used same geographical name to explain their origin.(Lika, Banat regions)

-Again, if they were part of a minority ethnicity or a group and their mother tongue differed from the official or dominant language, the name of the ethnic group they used for themselves may have never been used in any official document or census. This is particularly true of the small minority groups like Aromanians or Bunjevci.

-------------------------------------------

To this part I have nothing to add:

"If you can keep those things in mind your research will be more successful. You have to remember since 1991 Yugoslavia broke apart into separate countries, which could lead you way off base if you are searching for a relative who was Slovenian and you are trying to research records in Serbia.

Good luck and happy research."

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Weresch from Vrbas

yugaya — 2013-05-01 17:15:54Z

If and when you have more information and the place of origin confirmed as Vrbas you can research the family in the records of the Roman Catholic Church that are available online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive:

http://archivum.asztrik.hu/?q=en/oldal/registration

Records for Vrbas parish that are available are for the period 1875-1943.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Franzfeld and Pantschowa, Yugoslavia records

Mohnbauer — 2013-05-01 15:23:28Z

These microfilms of church records of 140 Banat places (see list below) are now in the Institute for Foreign Cultural Relations in Stuttgart, are also here from many places reenlargement available. All microfilms are also available through the Family History Centers of the Mormons.
http://www.genealogy.net/privat/flacker/bankibue.htm

MONOGRAPHS OF DANUBE SWABIAN PLACES
http://www.genealogy.net/privat/flacker/ortsmone.htm
http://www.genealogy.net/privat/flacker/omoa.htm
DANUBE-SWABIANS
http://www.genealogy.net/reg/ESE/dschwaben.html

Pancevo-Archive Registry Books Microfilming: http://www.arhivpancevo.org.rs/fondmfe.htm

Franzfeld-Kačarevo: http://www.swabiantrek.com/?page_id=455
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka%C4%8Darevo
http://chortiza.heimat.eu/Kart/Franzf.htm
http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Franzfeld_%28Banat%29

lilana27
you have 2 links for area of Black-Sea-Germans in Russia, Ukraine, no connection to Banat. ;)
http://maps.google.at/maps?hl=de&gs_rn=11&gs_ri=psy-...

Re: Franzfeld and Pantschowa, Yugoslavia records

yugaya — 2013-05-01 15:19:32Z

The listing on Pančevo archive website is a bit out-dated - when I spoke with them last year it turned out that all of the records that were in the archive were microfilmed before the original church registers were returned last year. :)

So even if the website does not have a listing for particular year/denomination/type of record -whatever and all records exist for the area that they cover - they do have them on microfilms.

But nothing online. :(

Re: Brucker - Jugoslovakian nationality

yugaya — 2013-05-01 15:12:44Z

-birth and baptism record of Joannes (János in Hungarian) Brukker, year 1880., father Petrus Brukker and mother Anna Schafer, Bačka Palanka, (then) Austria-Hungary, (now) Serbia.

-a note on the surname spelling: another birth is in the records for that same year registered under BRUKER surname. You will have to check more records to distinguish what the original spelling of the surname is, and whether this family is related to Brucker family from Apatin.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Brucker

yugaya — 2013-05-01 14:56:17Z

- birth and baptism record of Vendelinus Brucker, year 1886., Apatin, (then) Austria-Hungary, (now) Serbia, parents Josephus and Rosina, obtained via Kalocsa diocese e-archvie.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Brucker

yugaya — 2013-05-01 14:56:02Z

Both you and Brian can research your ancestors online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive ( and that way see if the families are connected) - records for Apatin and records for Bačka Palanka Roman Catholic parishes for the period 1826-1922 are available online if you register with them:

http://archivum.asztrik.hu/?q=en/oldal/registration

In the listing these places are under their names in Hungarian language: APATIN and PALÁNKA.

I will check both parishes for your Bruckers and post a record for you to be a starting point.

And...I am more than certain that these records - which include full birth, marriage and death records for the period I mentioned - will help you find out a lot more and be less frustrated with your elusive ancestors. :)

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Franzfeld and Pantschowa, Yugoslavia records

yugaya — 2013-05-01 13:41:31Z

No civil and church vital records for these towns and that period are available online.

We are still waiting on whether the records that were returned to church(es) last year will be available for research in some electronic format, and as far as I know the state archive in Pančevo, which has these records on microfilm, has no funds to digitalize or put them online at the moment.

I suggest you register for this e-mail list and ask for assistance:

http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/HUN/DONAUSCHWA...

There are Family books that can be purchased for almost each village or town available via this association, but I am not aware if any of these are also online.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Minic, Joseph?

yugaya — 2013-05-01 13:31:30Z

Family MINIĆ lived in the village of ŠLJIVOVAC, LASINJA, according to the period records:

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Mini%C4%87&am...

If this person emigrated between 1850-1941 the place of origin/birth/last residence would most probably be listed as either Šljivovac OR Lasinja.

The exact distance between this village and Zagreb is in my opinion irrelevant. More important is the information on their ethnicity and faith - they were Serbs, Eastern Orthodox and the records you should be looking for are records of the Serbian Orthodox Church in Croatia. Some are available online via familysearch.org:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28194-31884-23...

and all other records are only available in state archive in Karlovac, Croatia.

If you are looking for information on this person I suggest you contact Eparchy of Upper-Karlovac of the Serbian Orthodox Church to which this parish of origin belongs - even though no church vital records have been returned to them they will be able to get you in touch with the descendants of the same family from that same village:

http://www.eparhija-gornjokarlovacka.hr/index.php?lang=en

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Grandfathers birthplace

yugaya — 2013-05-01 13:30:45Z

Check if any of the RAKIĆ that appear in this database that covers the period your ancestor was born lived in any *likely* sounding place:

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Raki%C4%87&am...

(you have to click on "Naprijed" for more pages of results).

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: looking for information paul bernhardt or rosalia scherk

yugaya — 2013-05-01 13:22:31Z

You will need to supply birth years for me to be able to help you more.

Also if you want to look for information on them best way to do that is to research the original vital records - Roman Catholic church full records of marriage, birth and death are available online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive.

The records for Bački Breg are listed under its name in Hungarian language - BÉREG, and available period that is online is from 1826 till 1922.

website of this e-archvie with information about registration:

http://archivum.asztrik.hu/?q=en/oldal/registration

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: Yugoslavia Hungary Ancestry

RobertJerin — 2013-05-01 02:12:16Z

A good source for your research and history of Danube Schwabian Germans can be found at

http://www.dvhh.org/history/

Robert Jerin
Croatian Heritage Museum
Cleveland Ohio

Re: Yugoslavia Hungary Ancestry

yugaya — 2013-05-01 00:05:46Z

Church vital records for Roman Catholic Church for all of the places you listed that are now in Serbia - Futog, Žabalj and Sombor, are available online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/forum/vojvodina/kalocsa-roman-cat...

You will find the parishes listed under their names in Hungarian language:

Újfutak
Zombor
Zsablya

Records available are original birth, marriage and death records for years 1826-1922.

Jozef Straub was either not born in Futog parish or he was not born in 1905. I will try to look through more records to locate his birth record to be your starting point.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: yugoslavian adoption

yugaya — 2013-05-01 00:03:25Z

Only if you locate the descendants of the same family and they have that information as something that was know in the family -the identity of the father.

Also, depending on the religion and type of records (church, civil), the way birth records were kept and whether there are any additional remarks in the original records of birth made - the name of the father was sometimes added to the records of birth if the father signed a statement that the child is his.

I have see a few such written remarks in the records, but these were usually there if the pair subsequently got married.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: name search

yugaya — 2013-04-30 23:17:12Z

Gulding Franz owned a rope-making shop in Karlsdorf -Banatski Karlovac, in the year 1926. (last column on the link) :

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Gulding&f...

About this online database and how to research it:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/serbian-trade-assoc...

"-names of the employers who were Jewish, Hungarian, or German are in the database written using the orthography of their native languages, making it extremely useful for localized research of ancestors who belonged to these ethnic groups ."

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: JUNGERT KRISTOF place of origin

yugaya — 2013-04-30 23:08:22Z

@richard campbell

The place of birth of your ancestor Kristof Jungert is Mladenovo village, Serbia ( name of the village in other languages: Dunabökény in Hungarian and Bukin in German).

He was born in 1878.

You can research the Roman Catholic Records of this parish online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive :

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/forum/vojvodina/kalocsa-roman-cat...

Records that are available are for the period 1826-1922., and are in Latin and Hungarian language. The village is listed under its name in Hungarian - Dunabökény.

I will be sending you the original record of his birth via email.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: looking to learn more info on ancestry names Ivanov or Phiiipov

yugaya — 2013-04-30 21:55:46Z

Both surnames you are researching are typical of ethnic Serbs from Vojvodina region. In most public records I find them listed as Serbs, and in some onomastic studies like the one discussed here which has a chapter on Roma surnames:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/given-names-nicknam...

there is IVANOV mentioned as surname which also appears among Roma in that region.

But just like with any other surname from this part of the world, to confirm the ethnicity of your ancestors you need to trace back the original family.

Anyhow, a few general points:

- I reviewed hundreds of ancestors who were * born in Belgrade* and only one person was actually - born in Belgrade. :)

- In this public database the last column represents merchants who took the children sponsored by the Serbian Trade Association as their apprentices. I use it to research or confirm territorial distribution of a surname between 1850. and 1941.

Here is FILIPOV surname in this database:

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Filipov&f...

and here is IVANOV :

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?find=Ivanov&fi...

As you can see, most of the places they lived in and work for that period are in the same province for which these surnames are typical - Vojvodina. None are in -Belgrade.

I posted how these *atypical* Serbian surnames ending in -OV came to be here:

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.eeurope.yugoslavia.ser...

-More on Privrednik database and how to use it you can read here:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/serbian-trade-assoc...

-you will need to dig up and provide more concrete facts like birth years, names of parents or places of origin confirmed, emigration records etc. to be able to research your ancestors further.

I hope I at least helped you with learning something about your ancestral surnames and their origin.

If you are going to try to contact descendants of the same family, the best way to do that these days is via facebook - search for them using the original spellings.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: searching info re alfred klemm born in novi-sad 1929

yugaya — 2013-04-30 21:12:23Z

Easiest way you can access original records for both Novi Sad and Sombor if your ancestors were Roman Catholic, is to register for the Kalocsa diocese e-archive :

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/forum/vojvodina/kalocsa-roman-cat...

The parishes in these towns are listed under names in Hungarian language - Novi Sad under ÚJVIDÉK and for Sombor under ZOMBOR.

Original birth, marriage and death records are available for the period 1826-1922.

-The records do not cover the birth year of your ancestor in Novi Sad in 1929. but if he had siblings born until 1922. or if the parents got married in Novi Sad prior to 1922. they will be in there.

-The record of birth of the father from Sombor is not in the year 1897- only one child to Klemm parents was born in Sombor that year, and that child died shortly after birth, which confirms that there was Klemm families living in Sombor at the time your ancestor was appr. born, and that these Klemm families from Sombor were Roman Catholic. That parish is too big for me to go through what I usually recommend people do in cases like this - to research at least five years plus or minus around the birth year you have.

Once you locate any record from either Novi Sad or Sombor that should enable you to find all other records available via this e-archive.

-att: birth record in Hungarian language of Klemm Jozsef, father Klemm Mátyás, born and died in 1897. in Sombor, (then) Austria-Hungary, (now) Serbia.

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

P.S. : People from Novi Sad would probably not agree with the statement that it is or ever was *a suburb of Belgrade*. :)))

Re: Svilar family history

yugaya — 2013-04-29 19:35:20Z

Father of Maksim Svilar from household 63 Pećani, Bunić born abt. 1893. (+ or- five years) is ILIJA SVILAR.

This information obtained via Serbian Trade Association "Privrednik" database you can see here:

http://baza.privrednik.net/privrednik.php?startrow=0&t=&...

You can read more about "Privrednik" and how to interpret results from their database here:

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/documentation/serbian-trade-assoc...

If your and Siniša's ancestor were related then ILIJA SVILAR is your previous generation ancestor, and the household number for which you should research the vital records of the Serbian Orthodox Church is 63 ( crucial piece of information in researching ethnic Serbs from Croatia).

There is a fragment of the church records you need that is available online via familysearch.org, records for the years 1857. and 1858. :

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-28193-4111-68?...

Household number in these records you are looking for will look something like this :

Мћсто wбитаниа : Бунич
Число домовно : 67

I attached the snapshot of the marked portion of that in the records where the place of residence Bunić is written.

Any and all other vital records are located in the Karlovac state archive, Croatia.

Additional records and documents are available via Serbian Orthodox Church, Eparchy of Upper-Karlovac, to which the parish of your ancestors belongs :

http://www.eparhija-gornjokarlovacka.hr/

If you have any additional questions or need more assistance please post a new message to Yugoslavia General board and provide all the information you have on your SVILAR ancestors:

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.eeurope.yugoslavia.gen...

***
"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

***

Martin Kern and Anna Weber, Gajdobra 1890.

yugaya — 2013-04-29 10:44:08Z

Re: lookup request

Attached is the original marriage record for Martin Kern and Anna Weber, year 1890, Gajdobra village, (then) Austria-Hungary, (now) Serbia.

Martin Kern, age 25, parents Joannis Kern and Anna Kirch, parish of origin Bačka Palanka.

Anna Weber, age 19,parents Joannis Weber and Anna Schumacher, parish of origin Gajdobra.

Original church vital records of the Roman Catholic Church for both Gajdobra and Bačka Palanka are available online via Kalocsa diocese e-archive, for the period 1826. - 1922.

http://www.rodoslovlje.com/forum/vojvodina/kalocsa-roman-cat...

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

Re: schewkow or zsivkow

yugaya — 2013-04-28 12:50:21Z

Original surname you need to look under for information about the same family is ŽIVKOV.

The town is ZRENJANIN ( in various languages also Veliki Bečkerek Großbetschkerek, Becicherecu Mare, Nagybecskerek ).

ŽIVKOV family from that area are Serbs and are of Eastern Orthodox faith - you need to contact the Serbian Orthodox Church for information from church vital records, and state municipal offices and state archives for information from civil vital records. None of these records are available online. You would have to hire a researcher but I only recommend you do that after you have more info like at least a birth year, name of one parent or a relative.

Easiest way to obtain information and assistance would be if you locate relatives - that is best done these days via facebook - search for ŽIVKOVs from ZRENJANIN.

Google "Živkov Zrenjanin" and you will see that a lot of them still live in that town today:

http://www.google.hu/#hl=hu&sclient=psy-ab&q=%C5%BDi...

Also JOHN as a first name would have originally been in Serbian language JOVAN, but since their travel documents from that period were based on records that were written in Hungarian language, if you are researching ship manifests and immigration databases keep in mind that the first name can be in those also JANOS or IVAN.

As most families actually lived in smaller villages and in records after emigrating as their birth place was listed a larger town or administrative centre, look for Živkov immigrants from village of ORLOVAT - that is where the family first appeared in the church vital records in that area and where most of Živkovs lived at the time your ancestor emigrated.

Surname variants "schewkow* which was changed then to *schifko" are spelling influenced by Latin and German language, due to attempts to phonetically transcribe the way surname ŽIVKOV is pronunced in the mother tongue - in which sounds pronunced as *zh* and *sh* are close enough to often be interchanged in records in foreign language.

The spelling *Zsivkow* is in Hungarian language - you can see that the first name of this ŽIVKOV that arrived in 1907. from Zrenjanin is also replaced with the Hungarian first name János:

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/engine/gold.php?uid=...

He traveled with wife Magdolna and a son (also in this record as János) Živkov.

Hope this helps and good luck with your research. :)

***

"Rodoslovlje" Serbian Genealogy Society
www.rodoslovlje.com

schewkow or zsivkow

summerlin111148 — 2013-04-28 01:19:51Z

yes looking for information on a john zsivkow name that was reported on his travel to america along with his wife magdalena wambach zsivkow around 1905 from becskerek went to st louis mo magdalena had a sister name barbara wambach also came to america this is all I know any information would be helpful in my search of the family name was later changed to schewkow then to schifko parents are unknown at this time any information on how to receive information from becskerek would be helpful thanks julie a summerlin