Chernivetska - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: KSIAZYK, KSIONZYK KSIONZEK

vmktelusnet — 2013-05-02 02:58:16Z

I cannot connect Paul Pulra (Plura)or anyone else you refer to.

Where are they from?

~v~

Re: KSIAZYK, KSIONZYK KSIONZEK

Bilinsky61 — 2013-05-01 23:55:54Z

I have a document (marriage certificate) listing a Paul Pulra (Plura) as a witness Do the names Dmytro Melnyk pr Nicholas Bilinsky or Martha Bindas (Zarokowski) Sorokowski or Zpaus mean anything to you? e-mail me if you receive this message at marmal23@hotmail.com

Re: MOROZ

Donacita — 2013-04-14 07:35:35Z

Steve - I tried to find your group on facebook, but it wouldn't work.

Re: MOROZ

Mighthelp — 2013-04-01 14:34:18Z

Repuzhyntsi = Репужинці (in Ukrainian) > Zastavna raion/district > Chernivtsi oblast/region > UA, latest zip code 59414. Today this historical province is still referred to as Bukowyna by locals. During Interwar Period Romanian name was Rapujineţi > Cernauţi.
http://kartaonline.com/uk/obls/52/regs/1081/city/14172-%D1%8...

Village was founded on the right bank of the Dniester River in 1353 by Askold Repuzhynetskij. Village survived many Tartar slave raids between 14th/15th century. Today it still exists w/population of appx 1,900+.

Old photo of Orthodox Church of the Intercession, built in 1791, in time frame when there were only 25 homes in the village.
http://picasaweb.google.com/113836661759138499818/OldBukowin...

LDS has filmed Orthodox Church Registers for Repuzhyntsi (1841-1932)
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/1336910

Following link is geared for Galician Heritage, however Vital Records Section contains HOW-TO research records in Old Church Slovanic which LDS lists incorrectly as Russian. Make sure to obtain a transliteration (sounds-like) of your surname using Cyrillic Alphabet, before starting your research. http://ua.translit.cc/

http://www.halgal.com/vitalrecords.html

Today there is one Moroz (means FROST in Ukr) listed as still living in selo/village Rypushyntsi:
МОРОЗ МИРОСЛАВ МИТРОФАНОВИЧ 1945-06-20 РЕПУЖИНЦІ
Moroz, Myroslav son of Mytrofan dob 1945
=========================================
=========================================
History of Bukovyna/Bukowyna/Bukowina:
http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=/p...

Re: MOROZ

srevucky1 — 2013-03-29 19:42:03Z

Hi,

Since most of my dad's family came from this village, I've started a page on Facebook for those who can trace their relatives back to Repuzhyntsi. It's simply called "Repuzhyntsi Genealogy", and I'd ask if you could join this group if possible, so that those who trace their families back to this village can collaborate.

Steve

Re: Derelui

tucsonkids — 2013-03-14 14:58:40Z

Yes, they were, except my grandmother was Polish.

Has the old cemetary been maintained?

Re: Derelui

smihayesi — 2013-03-13 12:49:53Z

Were they of German or Austrian origin?

I know that in Molodia there is an old German cemetery.

Some families who had german family names changed them to romanian or Ukrainian, to protect themselves from the soviets.

Re: Derelui

tucsonkids — 2013-03-12 17:24:18Z

Hi,

All relatives left in 1940. Family names were MAYER and EXNER. Close relatives were WOLF. All lived in Derelui or Molodia.

Re: Derelui

smihayesi — 2013-03-12 13:29:53Z

Hello Tucsonkids!

Nice to meet you here!

Do you know the family name of your grandparents or parents who left Ostrytsya in 1940? Do you know if you still have relatives there?

Kind regards,

Re: Derelui

tucsonkids — 2013-02-27 21:30:21Z

I know this place lies a little way southeast of Chernowitz and near Molodia - possibly along a rail line. My family left from there in 1940. Porably has changed name under the Ukrainian rule.

Re: Seeking FRUM's and MUNTNER's from Czernowicz area

toosdewit — 2013-02-01 13:03:58Z

this is about your message on ancestry.
Will you please e mail me , because we are looking for relatives of Mina Lisa Blau-Muntner, born in Czernowitz, died in Auschwitz 1942

toosdewit@hetnet.nl

Re: Looking for great grand father or relatives

dkrestanowich — 2013-01-25 17:34:36Z

the surname Gulka shows up in Fort Frances Ontario. If you google the Fort Frances Times and enter "Gulka" in their search engine you should get some recent obits. There is a reasonable chance of a connection because Fort Frances has a large Ukrainian community, many of whom moved to the town from Saskatchewan and southern Manitoba.

Re: KSIAZYK, KSIONZYK KSIONZEK

ckessel125 — 2013-01-24 06:17:53Z

I am researching my husbands family tree. His ggrandfather was Paul Paluck married to Marie Ksaizek (possibly Kshoniuk) coming from Boryczowloa, Galcia in 1899 Probally on the ship "Bracilia" from Hamburg to Halifax then on to North Dakota. Any help you could give me would be appreciated.

A history of settlements in Bukovyna

rwf_TO — 2013-01-21 01:53:28Z

There are a series of articles on the history of settlements in Bukovyna (Povestea aşezărilor bucovinene) published in Monitorul de Suceava (a Romanian multimedia news company), written by Ion Drăguşanul. The series briefly chronicles the settlement of 400+ towns and villages located in Bukovyna (North and South), some dating back to the 15th century. Mr. Drăguşanul has also published and edited several articles and books of ethnohistorical interest on Bukovyna.

I have compiled a list of these articles and uploaded the file to: http://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwkfBQUgnzvGa2txdDdMaFRvcDQ/e.... Clicking on the name of the town/village will link you to the respective article. Note that I have left the town/village name as is in Romanian.

All of the articles are written in Romanian. Web-based translation software isn’t always on the mark, but one can usually get the gist of what is written.

Richard

Re: surname: Mochoruk, Fedor & Ilena, Toporowce, Galicia

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-01-04 00:44:29Z

www.halgal.com
http://www.familienkunde.at/Download/KronlandGalizien1850.jp...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Galicia_1...

http://www.jewishgen.org/communities/loctown.asp
Toporovtse, Toporovtsy populated place 48°34' N 25°29' E E M U G Ukraine 259.8 miles WSW of Kyyiv 50°26' N 30°31' E

arriving to America thru NY Ellis Island processing center:
Mochoruk, Antoni Toposowce, Poland 36 1887 1923
Mochoruk, Dmetro Toporowce 30 1875 1905
Mochoruk, Peter Horodenka, Austria 25 1885 1910
Mochoruk, Vedro Toporowce 32 1873 1905
Mochoruk, Wasy Toporovce 18 1887 1905

http://www.maplandia.com/ukraine/ivano-frankivska/toporovtsy...

http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG100_300DPI/A54_B41_(Z_11_K_XXXII... bottom of the map straight North with location BELELUJA

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/43-49.jpg
bottom of the map small 10 Beleluja; straight North is TOPOROWCE

"Melneiwychuk"? The ending should be CZUK.
take a listen in http://ivona.com for pronounciation of the spelling you have. You might just come up with a better spellin.

Melnyczuk, Melańczuk - found in Poland.

Re: surname: Mochoruk, Fedor & Ilena, Toporivtsi, Bukovina

chrystynakells — 2013-01-02 18:23:26Z

They were from Toporowce Galicia - the name of the villae is wrong

debbie ruptash peterson

Mathesonmark — 2012-12-29 21:23:33Z

Hi Deb, Merry Christmas ! Hope all is well with you and your family. Would like to hear from you, please email me mathesonmark@hotmail.com Cheers, Mark Matheson

Re: Looking for great grand father or relatives

rwf_TO — 2012-12-09 03:42:56Z

Hi carver07,

What is the objective of your ancestral search? Are you looking for information on your families after they immigrated to Canada and settled in Saskatchewan, or prior to their arrival?

Your post is in the Chernivetska message board. Do you have documentation or reason to believe that your family was from the Chernivetska oblast in Bukovina?

I can point you to different resources, depending upon what you want to accomplish in your search.

Regards,

Richard

Looking for great grand father or relatives

carver07 — 2012-12-08 23:11:10Z

My grandfather Paul (Pawlo) Gulka arrived in Canada in 1903. He settled in the Hryhoriw District of Saskatchewan. He immigrated to Canada with his sister Mary and brother-in-law Marko Gulka. The rest of the family remained in Ukraine. His parents I believe to be Frezena Stachiw and Daniel Gulka.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

john_naida — 2012-12-04 13:18:14Z

Sylvia - Ostritsa is in Hertsayevskyi (Gertsaevsky) raion, Герца́ївський райо́н. The reference to Novoselytskyi raion is actually Kotul Ostritsa or, as it is known to locals, Mahala Ostritsa. For the sake of convenience, "Kotul" is often ignored and confuses the issue for outsiders. There is no doubt, however, among locals as to where Ostritsa is.

Many years ago some people living in Ostritsa were displaced by a huge flood of the River Prut. They relocated permanently to a portion of southeast Mahala, but were not eager to call Mahala their home. To solve the dilemma, they named their new home Mahala Ostritsa.

Mahala, Mahala Ostritsa, Buda, and Prut form the district municipality Mahala.

Mark - When researching LDS microfilms, be sure to eventually include Mahala because of the proximity and association with Ostritsa. The same applies for other nearby locations.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-12-04 12:46:02Z

Sylvia,

Using Google Maps it appears that Ostrytsya is reasonably close to both Novoselytsia (27km) and Chahor (9km). Of course before the automobile 27km would still have been quite a journey, but it seems like my grandmother may have had cousins in Novoselytsia, so perhaps Joana was related to one of them.

With respect to Predyis are you aware of anyone who has conducted research on their ancestors from the area and may have come across Maria Predii, born around 1870 and who married Gheorge Suprovici?

Regards,
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-12-04 12:43:43Z

John,

Here is some more information that may be of use to you. If anything matches up with people in your database I would love to hear about it!

First of all my father was Dumitru (Danny) Tcaciuc. Like your mother he was born in 1929 (in Montreal). Perhaps the same Dan you mentioned was the godfather of both my father and your mother (or perhaps he was a favourite uncle).

Since it is often the case that children are named after their parents, uncles and aunts, it may be worth mentioning that my Dad's siblings were Gheorge, Eleonora, Jion, Maria, and Wasili.

On the Suprovici side, in addition to my great grandparents (whose names I provided in a previous post) I know the following information from quizzing my aunts were are both in their nineties:

When she first came to Canada from Ostritsa at age 17 in 1912, my grandmother Eudochia Suprovici stayed for a time in Montreal with her Uncle Gheorge. It may be that this Gheorge (or another relative with that name) was married to Helena (Elena) Radich (Rodic), born 1890 in (Raracea?) Romania. It appears Elena had a sister named Dominika who remained in Raranci? Romania. Elena returned to Romania with her two young children to visit Dominika from SEP 1923 to JAN 1924. Her son John was born in 1916 and her daughter Alexandra was born in 1914. Later in life John would go on to marry someone named Claire, but I could find no further information on Alexandra.

One of my grandmother's aunts, whose last name may have been spelled Suprovitch was married to a man by the name of Lukian. They would have had three children - Alecsandra, Theodore, and Zidzi. Zidzi's son George Lukian was born in 1897 in the city of Novoselytsia, Bukovina, so there is a good chance that whole branch of the family was from that area.

She may also have had an uncle Dumitru Suprovici(b. 1893, d. 1964) from Bucovina. Maybe this is the famous Dan we have both been talking about!

My grandmother's younger brother died at an early age (maybe around the year 1900). As far as I know she had no other siblings, but I believe she had some step brothers/step sisters from after her mom died and her father remarried. Unfortunately I don't know any further details.

Also in closing it might be worth mentioning that my grandparents were married at the Romanian Orthodox Church of Montreal - St. Mary's Annunciation in 1917 - presumably this is the same church your great grandfather, Peter Lobodici petitioned to have built.

Regards,
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-12-04 09:19:44Z

John,

First of all thanks for your tips on LDS research. As I currently live in Germany, I need to find a location near here and deal with my poor German skills. I hope to pursue this further in the new year.

As to the mysterious middle name of Stefan for my great grandmother, I think it is more likely a reference to her father (whose name I don't know) than her husband (who was Gheorge Suprovici... unless she had a second husband ;).

Finally with respect to my old (Cyrillic) Romanian reading skills, they are about as good as my new Romanian reading skills, which are non-existent :(.

The one really great thing is that in discussing variations of spelling of my ancestors last names (like Predii), people are also including the Cyrillic spellings (Предий). Thanks Sylvia! That may be of some help if I come across some old records or tombstones with Cyrillic writing.

Best wishes,
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

lorsyl2 — 2012-12-04 06:41:03Z

Mark,

Re: Predii from Ostritsa...
There are quite a few of Predyi individual's living in Ostrytsia. One of the oldest men is Vasyl, son of Petro, born 1921, the other is Georgyi, son of Ivan, born 1939.

Re: Joana alui Floria Costos, Ostrita, Jud. Cernauti, Bucovina in 1938... Costos = Kostosh = Костош (Cyrillic). There is only one Kostosh listed in the city of Novoselytsia (Новоселиця), a population of 7892. Another in the village Chahor (Чагор), a population of 4264.

John,
Which Ostritsya...Novoselytskyi or Hertsayevskyi raion?
-------------------------------------------------------

Hope you enjoy viewing this video, as I have.

Malanka holiday (New Years Eve), in Bukovina, Romanian village of Ukraine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=GNHhs0Q...

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-12-04 05:46:19Z

Absolutely! Thanks Sylvia. It supports what John heard from Domnica Predii's grandson in Ostritsa who believes Prighei is Predii.

Unfortunately in a follow-up e-mail he indicates that a) Stefan as a middle name for a girl doesn't make sense (man's name) and b) a middle name is unusual throwing into suspicion whether that is correct or another transliteration error.

Again thanks for your help!
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

john_naida — 2012-12-04 01:06:53Z

Mark,

I agree with Sylvia about ordering LDS film(s). You can start with microfilm #2332125 for Ostritza. Item 2 is for births 1842-1878, where you should find Maria Predii. Item 3 is for births 1879-1897, where you should find Eudochia Suprovici. Keep in mind that records from numerous nearby locations (Mahala, Molodia, Zurin, etc.) may eventually be useful too.

Don't expect this to solve all your spelling questions though. When I first started looking at the LDS films, I thought I would finally find the definitive spelling of names, but there are variations even in the church records. That's when you rely on other details such as parental names, etc.

I'm baffled by the Maria Stefan Predii name. Middle names are extremely rare and this one is a male name. Is it perhaps Maria (wife or daughter of) Stefan? Referring to a female by her husband or father is very common.

How are your old (Cyrillic) Romanian reading skills? You will need to recognize key spellings at a minimum; the more you learn, the easier it will be.

You order the microfilm rentals online and have them sent to an LDS Family History Center of your choice. Be sure to research centers for hours of operation and the type of microfilm readers they have. In my area, our county library has the latest digital readers so you can save records to a flash drive, and they have convenient hours. Our center at the LDS church has analog readers and very limited hours. If you use analog readers, a digital camera is a must so you can study your findings later.

Good luck!

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

lorsyl2 — 2012-12-03 23:20:12Z

Mark,
I have a hard copy phone directory for the city of Chernivtsi, and also a dictionary of Ukrainian names. These are the books I use to locate your name. These books do not list the name Prigei or Prihei = Пригей (Cyrillic)... notice that the 'г' (Cyrillic) is used for the alphabet 'g' and 'h'.

At this time, I am leaning toward your family name being Predii = Предий. I will continue to search. It may be necessary for you to order the LDS film for this family in order to get the correct spelling.

p.s. Then again, the Cyrillic 'D', when transliterated appears as an English written lower casing 'g'. If that happened during the transliteration in Montreal, then the name would come out as Prigei, instead of Pridei. Clear as mud??

Sylvia

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-12-03 22:05:49Z

John,

You're not butting in at all! Any and all help is appreciated!! Please jump in anytime.

As I mentioned in an earlier e-mail my only reference to my great grandparents by name was my grandparents marriage certificate, but that wasn't an original, but rather a translated English version of the Romanian original made by the church in Montreal.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a spelling mistake. Furthermore if the city just copied the information off the church marriage certificate for their records they would have propagated that same mistake.

That's great news though. It seems that I may have more success searching for Prediis based on the comments I have seen in this forum.

If your friend has any knowledge of a Maria Stefan Predii from Ostritsa, born somewhere around 1870 I would guess, please let me know!

I also came across a money order sent to my grandmother from Joana alui Floria Costos, Ostrita, Jud. Cernauti, Bucovina in 1938. Maybe that name is also familiar to someone. If not a family member, I expect it was a close friend.

Best wishes,
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

john_naida — 2012-12-03 21:47:49Z

Mark,

I don't mean to butt in, but here is a message I just received from Domnica Predii's grandson in Ostritsa. "Predii is the correct spelling. Romanian - Predii, Ukrainian - Предій, English - Prediy."

Sylvia can probably tell you any number of stories about spelling variation she has seen.

Rămâi cu bine,
John

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-12-03 12:36:10Z

Sylvia,

On the subject of viewing foreign encoded DVDs, could you possibly save the content as a computer file (e.g., AVI, MP4 format)? Then it would play on any PC, so for example you could hook that PC up to a TV at your destination (or bring a notebook with you) and do the same provided they have the same type of video connector (e.g., VGA, DVI, HDMI).

Regards,
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-12-03 11:24:27Z

Sylvia,

Thanks for your tips on the spelling intricacies of the Romanian language. One thing is not clear to me however. Since you say in Romanian g and h are never used together does that mean that the spelling of my great grandmother's last name is incorrect, or that it suggests its origin is from somewhere else? Would the most likely then be Prigei or Prihei?

The spelling I used comes from the official English translation of my grandparents marriage licenses (both the one from the Romanian Orthodox Church of Montreal as well as the city of Montreal), so I suppose there could have been some "westernization" of the name that took place at the same time as the translation.

Regards,
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

john_naida — 2012-12-02 19:37:56Z

Hi Mark,

About Astrita, Cernowitz, yes that is Ostritsa. The Romanians often spell it Ostrita. Beyond that, it is take your pick - Ostritza, Ostritsa, Ostrytsia, Ostryta, and I'm sure more. Just for fun you can throw in the Cyrillic spellings too.

Spelling variations are extremely common for both names and places. My father's mother's maiden name was spelled Winisky, Winicki, Winnicka, Wynnytska, Uneska, Vinisky, Vinitsky, and Venesky in the US alone, without considering translations/transliterations from other languages.

When we visited Ostritsa last year, we maintained a travel blog. You may find it interesting. Here is the link: www.togetheragain.blog.com.

Montreal to Hamilton was a main route taken by many Romanian immigrants. My great grandfather, Peter Lobodici (also from Ostritsa) was one of twelve Romanians who petitioned the Montreal government to build the first Romanian Orthodox church there before he moved to Hamilton.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

john_naida — 2012-12-02 19:34:52Z

Mark,

Perhaps Dumitru is my mother's godfather Dan as I mentioned in another post. I know of others who were named Dimitrie or Dimitro but were called Dan in English. The dates look like they fit since she was born in 1929.

I would be interested in the names of friends and relatives. I am willing to bet some of them are in my database.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

john_naida — 2012-12-01 15:40:50Z

Hi Sylvia,

Yes, the Predii and Purici/Пурич/Purich names are different. My Purici family tree has several Predii people in it also. The problem with the Purici name is the pronunciation and transliteration. The original Romanian name, Purici, is pronounced "Purich" so when converted to Ukrainian (Пурич) then transliterated to English, it is spelled Purich. As Romanians though, the family uses Purici.

Mark - Be prepared for a variety of spellings for names, some correct, some not. That hold true for even the old church records.

Sylvia - Yes, Tcaciuc = Tkachuk = Tkaчук. I Skyped with one of my contacts in Ostritsa, and he confirmed it. He is unaware of any of the family there, but he will ask his grandfather. I Skype almost every week with family in Ostritsa and Luzhany.

Sylvia - Yes, Dmytro should be able to format the DVDs for you. I would be very surprised if his software could not write NTSC DVDs.

If you want to play the ones you have, check here: http://www.220-electronics.com/blu-ray-dvd/region-free-dvd-p.... Prices are not too bad and will play every format.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

lorsyl2 — 2012-12-01 08:20:34Z

Hi John,

You are so kind to mention my name. Glad to hear you are planning another trip!

You wrote: (Predii) Purici... I want to note that Predii (Предий) and Purici perhaps Purich (Пурич), are two different names.

Mark,

As for Prighei, the alphabet g and h are never used together. Г г -transliterated: h, pronounced as h in horn; Г г (same as above, except the upper right has an upward hook) -transliterated: g, pronounced as g in get. I do not have the Cyrillic 'g' sound alphabet on my Cyrillic keyboard. The thing is, there are very few words with the g sound. During the communist years, Russia dropped the Ukrainian g alphabet. Russians do not use the h sound. I may be wrong (?)

In the village Ostritsa, there are Predii and Purich individuals still living there.

John, I am sure that you may be able to help me with this one... Would the name Tcaciuc = Tkachuk = Tkaчук? There are also Tkachuk's (common name) in Ostritsa.

On a personal note: Dmytro sent us 8 DVD's of his sisters' wedding. As you know, Ukraine uses the SECAM format. I tried locally to purchase the DVD-decoder software, non available. Expensive to have a photo business do it. We bring and view, from Canada, our DVD's on his DVD player. But our DVD's are done on our computer... would it work if we asked him to redo them on his computer?

Sylvia

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

john_naida — 2012-11-30 15:33:09Z

Hi Mark,

A common route for Romanians leaving the Chernivtsi areas was to Montreal, then Hamilton.

I have attached two photos. One of Domnica (Predii) Purici, grandmother of my 3rd cousin, Stefan from Ostritsa. The other is my grandparent's wedding. 5th person standing from the left is Dan (Dimitro?) Suprovich, one of my mother's godfathers. She told me before that Gheorghe was in the wedding, but it appears as if it was Dan.

I suggest you do some research of old church records and I GUARANTEE that you will find many ancestors. You do this at a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Family History Center. The good news is that the local Orthodox priests in Bukovina were required by law to record every birth, marriage, and death in his area, regardless of the person's religious affiliation. It is a daunting task, but I can make it a lot easier by giving you specific microfilms to order.

How are your language skills? Most records are in Old Church Slavonic/Old Romanian (Cyrillic), Ukrainian, German (headings mostly), maybe a little Russian, and, just for fun, a mixture. As I said, the records were required by law, but in many cases it doesn't appear as if it was required that they be written legibly.

You have solid info to start with. Ostritsa is on the outskirts of Chernivtsi. Keep in mind that old villages/areas like Mahala, Molodia, Zurin, Boyan, and Kotul Ostritsa will likely be of interest to you too.

Just a note that I have spent almost 4,000 on my research so far. My wife and I will visit Ukraine again in August.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-11-30 13:30:26Z

Dear John,

First my apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I missed the notification in my e-mail of your posting last month.

There seem to be a number of coincidences in our family trees. Perhaps there is something in common.

The Gheorge Suprovich at your grandparents wedding could have been my grandmother's uncle. However it must have been quite the journey from Montreal to Hamilton in 1929. If it's the same person they must have been great friends!

According to your research in Ostritsa (North or South) have you found ancestors named either Gheorge Suprovich (Suprovici) or Maria Stefan Predii (Prighei)?

What I know according to official records I have from Canada is that these two people are my great grandparents and their daughter Eudochia Dora, born 22 SEP 1895 was my grandmother. She is listed on her passport (issued in Vienna in 1912) as coming from Astrita, Cernowitz which as far as I understand it from previous posts here would today be Ostrytsia, Chernivets'ka oblast, Ukraine.

I hope to hear from you again.

All the best,
Mark

Re: Lac(k)usta

carla_sherst — 2012-10-30 02:19:42Z

Hi Trina,
I'm from the Marianych side of the family and would be interested in any info you've received on Steve & Ann Lakusta.
I have pretty much no info on Eli & Maria's children beyond their names and the trail ends there.
My great grandfather was Eli's brother John.
Regards, Carla

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

john_naida — 2012-10-10 12:57:13Z

Hi Mark,

Both my maternal grandparent's families are from Ostritsa. A George Suprovich was in my grandparents wedding in Hamilton, Ontario, in 1929. There are several Predii (one spelling variation) names in my family tree.

My wife and I visited Ostritsa for two weeks in September 2011 and stayed with rediscovered family. We plan to return in August 2013.

Technically, Ostritsa in south of the Prut River and Kotul Ostritsa is on the north. As we found out, however, it is really a confusing situation for outsiders as names are combined, commingled, etc. by locals.

Sylvia is a great source of help. She is passionate about her work and helped me locate and contact family I had no knowledge of.

I have a 3rd cousin, Stefan Purici PhD, who is the world's foremost authority on Bucovina history. He is a professor in Suceava, Romania, but from Ostritsa.

I have another 3rd cousin, Stefan Purici also, who we stayed with in Prut, adjacent to Ostritsa. He is a well known artist who employees dozens of painters and woodworkers for work in monasteries and churches in Ukraine, Romania, and Moldova.

If I can be of any help, let me know.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

rwf_TO — 2012-09-16 15:01:13Z

Hi Mark,

My understanding of the article was that the "warriors" were part of a temperance league opposed to alcohol consumption. Note the use of the word "antialcoolici".

During the latter part of the 19th century, alcoholism was regarded as an increasingly destructive social ill. Temperance leagues, such as the "Liga Română contra Alcoolismului", were formed in response to the problem.

Richard

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-09-09 09:18:52Z

Richard/Sylvia,

Here is a complete listing of the reference documents I have on my grandparents. Let me know if you would like to see any of these.

Best wishes,
Mark

Austrian Passport - Issued 29FEB1912 Suczawa, Bukowina
Nicolai a Ioan Tcaciuc b. 16JUN1894 Kostina, Suczawa, Bukowina

Austrian Passport – Issued 10/2 1912 Czernowitz
Eudokia Zarrizi? Soprowicz b. 1894 Ostritza, Chernowitz, Bukowina

Marriage Certificate (Romanian Orthodox Church of Montreal - St. Mary's Annunciation) 18FEB1917, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Niculai Tcaciuc, son of Ioan Tcaciuc and Maria V. Grigoras of Costina Betircul Suceava, Bucovina, Romania.
Eudochia Suprovici, daughter of Gheorghe Suprovici and Maria Stefan Prighei of Astrita, Betircul Cernowitz, Bucovina.

Marriage Certificate (Montreal Superior Court) 1917 (and deposited in the archives 29NOV1957), Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Niculai Caciuc son of Ioan Caciuc and Maria V. Grigoras of Costina, Betircul Suceava, Bucovina.
Eudochia Suprovici daughter of Gheorghe Suprovici and Maria Stefan Prighei of Astrita, Betircul Cernowitz, Bucovina.

Canadian Naturalisation Certificate 11JUL1932
Niculai Tcaciuc (Tcacsiuc), b. 16JUN1894 in Kostina near Suczawa, Bucowina, Roumania.

Birth certificate 30MAY1933 Costana, Suceava
Nicolae (Nick) Tcaciuc b. 16JUN1893, bap. 23JUN1893
Father – Ioan (John) of Dumitru Tcaciuc, farmer of city Costana
Mother – Maria (Mary) born Grigoros

Austrian Money Order 9JUN1938
From Joana alui Floria Costos, Ostrita, Jud. Cernauti, Bucovina.

Canadian Naturalisation Certificate 3AUG1938
Eudochia Dora Suprovici Tcaciuc (Tcacsiuc), b. 22SEP 1895 in Ostrica, Czernowitz, Roumania.

Nonresident Alien's Border Crossing ID Card US 13JUL1944
Niculai Tcaciuc b. 16JUN1894, Rumania
Eudochia Dora b. 22 SEP1895, Rumania

US Department of Justice Record of Alien Admitted as Visitor 25JUL1947
Niculai Tcaciuc (Tcacsiuc) b. 16JUN1894, Kostina near Suczawa, Bucowina, Roumania

Last Will and Testament 12NOV1963
Dora Suprovici
Husband – Nick Tcaciuc (Caduc)

Power of Attorney (date unknown)
Nicolai a Ioan Caciuc to a lawyer in Cernauti in the death of his brother (fratele meu)? Gh. Grigoras.

Obituary
Eudochia Tcaciuc, d. 12SEP1972, age 76

Death Certificate 12FEB1973
Mrs. E. Tcaciuc, b. 22SEP1895, d. 12SEP1972

Various letters:
FEB1921
17JUL1938
18AUG1964
2OCT1964
15NOV1964
2JUL1965

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-09-09 09:16:08Z

Richard,

Thanks again for your encouragement and for helping to fill in the blanks as far as the history goes. It makes me wonder what it was that prompted my grandparents (and many other Romanians) to emigrate to Canada around 1912. From what I've read it was a time of extreme poverty in Romania, great political unrest and the ever increasing shadow of war. I expect that had a lot to do with it.

To address some of your comments:

1) Niculai may have brought his birth certificate to Canada, but what I know for sure is that I have a letter requesting a copy of this document from his employer and subsequently a translation of that document provided by the local Romanian Orthodox Church of Montreal.

2) In terms of local resources it may be worth mentioning that though I was born and raised in Montreal, for the last 8 years I've lived in the area around Frankfurt, Germany. In a way it's good because Frankfurt is a lot closer to Romania, but on the downside I still don't speak German very well, so finding local assistance in English may be a challenge. I will have to give further thought to how to access the microfilms you suggest.

3) With regards to birth dates I am fairly certain (within a year) of this information for both of my grandparents. Separately I will post a list of all the documents passed to me on my grandparents and the important genealogical details from each.

One interesting find was a brief typed letter in which Niculai gives to a lawyer from Cernauti (Dr. St. Panciu at str. Stefan cel Mare nr. 10) power of attorney in the matter of the death of his brother? (fratele meu) Gh. Grigoras. I don't understand why his brother would have the last name of his mother. Maybe it's a translation problem.

If you have additional resource materials that would make the process easier I would be very happy to learn more.

In the meantime I will see what I can do about getting copies of the two references you recommended.

By the way, I downloaded (and poorly translated with Google) the two-part brief history of Costana you suggested and found the following persons, possibly related to my grandmother.

From Rumeantev's Census of 1772-1773 Georgii Grigoras was named as one of 69 omitted gypsies (omis şi 69 birnici, şi anume)?

Also on 15AUG1893 there were apparently a number of persons named in the local newspaper as warriors who fight hunger for "strength" (Vitejii care şi-au înfruntat setea de „tărie”)? Included among them are the following persons who, based on their names may be among my grandmother's relatives:

Penteleiu Suprovici
George Suprovici
G. Preghii,
Ioana P. Suprovici

Do you have any idea who these warriors were or their historical significance?

Thanks again,
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-09-09 07:56:38Z

Sylvia,

I have looked through the letters I have copies of, but have found only one, dating from JUL1938 with an address.

It was posted by one Miha Suprovici to my grandfather and is postmarked Cernauti, so perhaps it is from someone living in the city itself rather than one of the villages named Ostrytsia.

I have included scans of the front and back of the envelope in case it provides you with any clues as to which Ostrysia village may be the most relevant to my family research (maybe the postmarks tell you something?).

Also I came across the 1936 address directory for Czernowitz online at http://czernowitz.blogspot.de/ in which I found a listing for one Anatolie Suprovici who was a student living at Regel Carol Str. 64, which I'm guessing was the university? Perhaps he was a relative of my grandmother, but I have no further details.

Thanks again for your help!
Mark

Re: Iluk / Iliuk (Ілюк) from Doroshivtsi, Zastavna, Chernivtsi

brad_rusnak — 2012-09-07 23:37:25Z

I thank you very much for the information provided. Please sent me the documents as well as directions to obtain the records. My email address is brad.rusnak@hotmail.com.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

rwf_TO — 2012-09-07 21:30:31Z

Hi Mark,

In the absence of a birth certificate for Eudochia, you can still obtain the same information for her. I'll explain how to do so in a moment. Please bear with this lengthy response.

First, let's consider Niculai. I would speculate that his parish church in Montreal likely had access to Niculai's birth information because Niculai brought his birth certificate with him when he travelled to Canada, which may have then become part of the Montreal parish registry. A birth certificate was a common form of identification for immigration purposes during that period. It's also conceivable that the church in Montreal obtained Niculai's birth information from the National or County Archives in Romania at some later date.

It's important to consider the socio-political climate and dual nature of historical Bukovina at the time. Niculai was born in Southern Bukovina, an area that was inhabited predominantly by ethnic Romanians. On the other hand, Eudochia was born in Northern Bukovina, an area that was populated primarily by an ethnic mix of Romanians in the minority and Ukrainians (Ruthenians) who formed a slight majority.

With the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian empire at the end of WW I, Northern Bukovina was controlled by Romania until the Soviet demand for this region in 1940. Northern Bukovina was subsequently ceded to the USSR, becoming the Ukrainian SSR. Southern Bukovina remained Romanian territory.

I digress in order to highlight the following point – that church records containing birth, marriage and death information for Niculai and Eudochia are located in two separate and autonomous repositories. Fortunately for us, some institutions (such as archives) remained largely intact, despite all of the territorial churn.

Today, vital statistics records from what was then Southern Bukovina are located in Romania's National Archives. For information on the archives, see the following link: http://www.romaniatourism.com/genealogy-searches.html. I'm not very familiar with the protocol for genealogical research in Romania; perhaps somebody from your local Romanian Orthodox church may be able to assist you, or possibly refer you to a reliable researcher who can conduct a detailed research on Niculai's ancestry.

As for what was then Northern Bukovina, vital statistics records became part of the state archival system. Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, these records have become part of the Central State Historical Archives of Ukraine (TsDIAL) at the national level. In practice, however, these records are typically stored in archives at the oblast level. For Eudochia, these would be found in the Chernivtsi State Archive.

Around 2000, the Family History Centre of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS) began the process of microfilming church records from various Ukrainian oblast archives that were once part of the Austro-Hungarian territories of Galicia and Northern Bukovina. See my previous post for details on how to obtain the microfilms from Ostrytsia: http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.eeurope.ukraine.cherni....

In the absence of a birth certificate for Eudochia, my strategy would be to order the Ostrytsia microfilm that contains birth information from 1895. The film number you need is: 2332125. Item 3 of this film contains birth details from 1879-1897. Because birth dates/years are sometimes inaccurately reported in sources such as Canadian census data etc., I would examine all births from 1893 to 1897. I'm hoping that you will ultimately locate the register containing Eudochia's birth. This will provide you with confirmation that you have the correct location of the village. It will also reveal information that will enable you to conduct further detailed research into Eudochia's ancestry, possibly going back several (5 or more) generations.

The process might seem a bit daunting and frustrating initially, but it's actually a lot of fun once you get started – especially if you discover that first nugget of information! Don't let the fact that you don't speak, read or write Romanian or Cyrillic deter you. The records for the 1895 time frame are most likely already written using the Latin-based alphabet, albeit in the Romanian language. I have several resource materials that I can share with you to make the process easier, and there are members of genealogy forums who are always willing to help out. (FYI: I neither speak, read, write or understand Romanian or Ukrainian, but am very comfortable zipping through these records).

--------------------------------------------------------

To my knowledge, LDS has not microfilmed church records from Romania, so you will probably have to obtain details about Niculai's ancestry through contact with the Romanian National Archives, or through an experienced researcher.

However, I did find a brief history about Costana from the “Monitorul de Suceava”, authored by Ion Drăguşanul. They are in two (2) parts:

- Costana, part I: http://www.monitorulsv.ro/Povestea-asezarilor-bucovinene/201...

- Costana, part II: http://www.monitorulsv.ro/Povestea-asezarilor-bucovinene/201...

There is also a fairly detailed history of Costana available through LDS in book form, entitled “Monografia satului Costâna : comuna Todireşti, judeţul Suceava”, authored by Ioan Pînzar. Of course, it's written in Romanian. See: https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/show?uri=http%3A%2F%.... There's a remote possibility that it's available through your public library system or Library and Archives Canada. If not, you could likely get your library system to order it for you at cost if you want your own personal copy.

Another publication which may be of interest to you is entitled “Sacru, tradiţii şi folclor din comuna Todireşti – Suceava”, authored by Mihai and Maria Bocancea. Translation: “Sacred traditions and folklore of Todireşti – Suceava”, of which Costana is part. See: http://www.monitorulsv.ro/foto/3u4cUOz/1. Given that it's a local publication, finding a copy may be a challenge. Perhaps contacting Mr. Drăguşanul might produce some results.

Keep us posted on your progress, Mark. We always love to hear stories with a happy outcome!

Richard

Re: Iluk / Iliuk (Ілюк) from Doroshivtsi, Zastavna, Chernivtsi

rwf_TO — 2012-09-07 06:15:25Z

Hi Brad,

I'm familiar with these family names. Hryhory German (sometimes spelled “Herman”) and his family travelled with mine (Petro Iluk) on their voyage to Canada in 1897.

I've gone through some of the church records that I have, and found the following information for you. I have tried to transliterate the names as accurately as possible, although there may be variations in spelling. For example, Aksenie can sometimes be spelled as: Ksenia, Aksenia, Aksana/Axana, Axenie/Axenia, Zenia, Xenia, and even Oksana/Oxana.

Hryhory German was born in the village of Doroshivtsi (Doroschoutz, during the time of the Austrian empire) on June 7, 1858 and baptized by the parish priest, Dmitri Vidiniveki, on June 8, 1858. Hryhory was the son of Teodor German and Ksenia Pavchuk. Hryhory's godfather was Atanasii Anaka; the midwife was Iftimia Vihnan. At the time of his birth, Hryhory's family lived in house number 133.

I'm unable to locate the birth record for Hryhory's wife, Aksenie, as some of the birth records for 1864-1865 are missing.

Hryhory, son of Teodor German (deceased) and Ksenia Pavchuk married Ksenia (Aksenie), daughter of of Vasyl (son of Danylo) Radyk and Marina Pohivka, on January 27, 1883. Witnesses to the marriage were Petro German and his wife, Maria. They were married by the parish priest, Eusevi Andriychuk. At the time of marriage, Hryhory's family lived in house number 253; Ksenia's family lived in house number 49. Hryhory was 24; Ksenia was 18.

The birth information for their four children born in Doroshivtsi is as follows:

Mihail, son of Hryhory German and Ksenia Radyk, was born on November 27, 1884 and baptized by the parish priest, Eusevi Andriychuk, on November 28, 1884. Mihail's godparents were Petro German and Vasyl (son of Dmitri) Vihnan; the midwife was Maria Horivchuk. At the time of his birth, Mihail's family lived in house number 253.

Domnika, daughter of Hryhory German and Ksenia Radyk, was born on January 19, 1888 and baptized by the parish priest, Eusevi Andriychuk, on January 20, 1888. Domnika's godfather was Vasyl Vihnan; the midwife was Anastasia Holovachuk. At the time of her birth, Domnika's family lived in house number 253.

Teodor, son of Hryhory German and Ksenia Radyk, was born on January 9, 1890 and baptized by the parish priest, Eusevi Andriychuk, on January 10, 1890. Teodor's godparents were Petro German and Illia Pavchuk; the midwife was Anastasia Holovachuk. At the time of his birth, Teodor's family lived in house number 253.

Arseny, son of Hryhory German and Ksenia Radyk, was born on March 12, 1895 and baptized by the parish priest, Eusevi Andriychuk, on March 13, 1895. Arseny's godfather was lllia Pavchuk; the midwife was Maria Haidei. At the time of his birth, Arseny's family lived in house number 253.

If you want to include your email address, I can send you copies of these church documents. If you want to do additional research on these families (possibly going back several generations), I can give you directions on how to obtain the entire collection of these church records.

Richard

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-09-07 04:09:40Z

Folks,

Here is the official translation for the Birth Certificate of Eudochia's husband Niculai by the priest of his church in Montreal if it helps at all (wish I had the same for Eudochia):

Bucovina Archidieceasa Roumanian Orth. Protobisbetariat of "Sucevei". Provincia: Suceava. City of Costana. No. exh. 148. This is to certify that in the Record Book of Births of Roumanian Greek Orthodox Church of "Sucevei". page 301-302 the following is recorded; No. 40 Costana; No. 232, born 16 Jun 1893, baptised 23 Jun 1893 Nicolae (Nick), Religion: Roumanian Orthodox, Birth: legitimate, Father: Ioan (John) of Dumitru Tcaciuc, farmer of City Costana, Mother: Maria (Mary) born Grigoros, Godparents: Victoria Cocarla, domestic of Costina, Doctor: Sofia Ilciuc of City Costana, Baptised by: Ioan (John) Popescul adm. parinh, Signed: Parish Costana, 30 May 1933, Eugenie Rachmostriuc m.p.s. parish.

Re: Iluk / Iliuk (Ілюк) from Doroshivtsi, Zastavna, Chernivtsi

brad_rusnak — 2012-09-07 02:47:58Z

I would appreciate any information you have to offer.
I have Hryhor German married to Aksanie Radych in 1884.
Hryhor was born June 7, 1858. He died June 1, 1933.
Aksanie was born December 11, 1864 and died April 1, 1952.
They both left Ukraine in 1897 on the steamship Armenia from Antwerp, Belgium. They stopped at Hamburg, Germany to travel across the ocean to Montreal, Quebec, Canada arriving on June 24, 1897.
Hryhor's father was Hryhory according to what I've been told. His wife's name is unknown at present.
Hryhor (married to Aksanie) had three brothers: Yurij, Wasyl and Todor.
Hryhor (married to Aksanie) had 7 children: Mihal, Theodor, Dominique, Arseny, Peter, John and George. The first 4 were born in Ukraine while the remaining were born in Canada. We have absolutely no information on Dominique. My mother is very interested about her.

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

mcaduc1 — 2012-09-06 19:20:06Z

Richard and Sylvia,

My heartfelt thanks to you both!! Not speaking the knowledge at all or knowing the history and geography of Romania are big barriers to making progress in this area. but if I may say on behalf of the 6 children, and many grandchildren and great grandchildren of Eudochia and her husband Niculai, we are very grateful. Our grandparents never spoke much of their family. Perhaps it would have made them homesick to do so.

By the way, if I forgot to mention it before, I can tell you that my grandfather Niculai's birth village was Costina (which I believe is also known as Costana) in Suceava. He was born on 16 JUN 1893 to Ioan Dumitru Tcaciuc and Maria V Grigoras. Like my grandmother Eudochia he migrated to Canada in 1912, though they only met for the first time in Montreal.

I'll provide additional info over the weekend!!

All the best,
Mark

Re: Researching Eudochia Suprovici of Chernivtsi (Czernowitz), Bucovina

rwf_TO — 2012-09-06 17:48:48Z

Hi Sylvia,

No problem at all. The explanation about the 1962 elimination of Hertsayivskyi raion, only to be reconstituted again in 1991, has clarified the matter for me.

This was also a huge source of confusion for me when I started doing some research on my ancestral village of Lukovytsia. Some sources said it was in one raion; yet other sources said another. To compound the frustration, Lukovytsia appeared on a map in two places, separated by a small river.

As it turned out, the LDS microfilms that I examined documented the village on one side of the river as "Lukovytsia de jos" (upper). The opposite side of the river was documented as "Lukovytsia de sus" (lower).
Perhaps this might also apply to Ostrytsia?

My suggestion would be that if Mark is unable to locate hard evidence as to which raion his ancestors originate, perhaps he could use the process of elimination by first examining the Hlybotskyi (as documented by LDS) microfilm that would contain birth records for 1895, the year of Eudochia's birth. If her birth registration is found, then he has the right raion. If not, then he could examine the microfilms for Novoselytskyi raion (although I have been unable to locate microfilms for Ostrytsia in Novoselytskyi raion so far).

Mark: I hope this detail isn't muddying the waters for you. If I may speak on behalf of Sylvia as well, we are earnestly trying to put you in touch with your roots!

Richard