Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Hornyak - Lefkanics -Mozga - Andrasoszki

glossamir — 2013-05-23 05:09:15Z

Hi Istvan. Sorry about taking so incredibly long to get back to you on replying to my inquiry, but last year I finally talked to someone on Facebook that was related to my father's mother's side of the family. I've talked to Gyula Lefkanics, Judit Sarayne(from Miskolc), and Igor Lefkanic from Slovakia. We've charted out most of the Lefkanics family Do you have a Facebook account? I've posted a picture album and hand drawn charts for the Lefkanics family there.

Re: Hornyak - Lefkanics -Mozga - Andrasoszki

glossamir — 2013-05-23 05:08:29Z

Unknown person in photo, possible relations to Erdody or Odescalchi Family

CBrindza — 2013-05-13 23:00:16Z

Hello, I found a picture that my grandfather had.
I believe it was taken in the early mid 1920's either in Vatta or Budapest.
The person on the right is my Grandfather Istvan Csaszar (illegitamite child of Valeria Gobertina Erdody).
I do not know who the person on the left is.
Relations to the Erdody and Odescalchi family may be a clue.
Thank you.

Re: Gabanyicz

gabanyeczattila — 2013-05-05 19:52:01Z

I think I have some informations. Last weekend I was at Alsócece (Also cze-cze), and I found Andras Sitar's grave. He was wife was Klara Gabanyecz. Please write me an e-mail: gabanyeczattila@pannonmail.hu

Re: Cemeteries: Tiszasederkeny or Szederkeny

macdonab1 — 2013-04-27 13:31:16Z

Yes, the pictures were on Find a grave.

There is a lot of new info for me in your post here and I found some at the following link too;

http://trees.wmgs.org/getperson.php?personID=I4&tree=N12

Re: Cemeteries: Tiszasederkeny or Szederkeny

Cherie_in_OC — 2013-04-27 01:15:12Z

Wonder if you found the photos I posted on Find A Grave. They've been popping up - without permission - all over.

I'd be happy to exchange info as I don't post everything on Ancestry...

Re: Cemeteries: Tiszasederkeny or Szederkeny

macdonab1 — 2013-04-26 14:19:41Z

My aunt was Edith (Nagy) Kazmier daughter of Gyula (Julius) the brother of Sandor (Alexander) Nagy. I've recently found a photo of Sandor and one his mother.

Not sure I can provide you with any "new" information but would like to exchange what we can.

Thanks,

Bob MacDonald

Re: Help? Few more towns of origin on Hungarian/Slovakian church records that are hard for me to make out

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-24 02:25:45Z

Birds of a feather fly together. Common language and common tradition that is what I'm thinking. Possible that the ancestors were from same general area of Arva megye.
Both of your suggestions are plausible.

Re: Help? Few more towns of origin on Hungarian/Slovakian church records that are hard for me to make out

freeb1893 — 2013-04-24 02:18:03Z

Here is a link to a closer up image of that place of origin for George Csulik:

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/653d238e-aebb-47f8-b2ec-6...

Your pretty confident it's Żubracze?

Re: Help? Few more towns of origin on Hungarian/Slovakian church records that are hard for me to make out

freeb1893 — 2013-04-24 02:16:09Z

It is indeed. Zubr is the place of origin of the husband of the female ancestor I have from Arva megye. The posted record was his re-marriage after she died.

So you think it's more likely the places of origin for him and her would be both in the same place? Is it possible that they both migrated to Miskolcz from seperate places and met there? Or is it more likely they married first and then migrated to Miskolcz together?

Re: Help? Few more towns of origin on Hungarian/Slovakian church records that are hard for me to make out

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-23 22:32:50Z

freeb1893

If this "Zubr" location is connected to the ancestor from Arva megye/Orava region/Orawa region than it can be

http://www.radixindex.com/cgi-bin/hn1913.cgi?place=zubr

http://www.radixindex.com/en/surname_index/surname/csulik
http://www.radixindex.com/en/surname_index/surname/szilva
http://www.radixindex.com/en/surname_index/surname/mrasz
http://www.radixindex.com/en/surname_index/surname/hornyak

Re: Help? Few more towns of origin on Hungarian/Slovakian church records that are hard for me to make out

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-23 20:07:22Z

Żubracze, Poland
104 osoby
woj. podkarpackie
pow. leski
gmina Cisna
osoby_ inhabitants
woj. wojewodztwo
pow. powiat
http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/

http://www.radixindex.com/cgi-bin/hn1913.cgi?place=forro

http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g104.shtml
placenames in Zemplen megye:
http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g166.shtml

http://www.mapy.cz/#x=21.019481&y=48.873962&z=12&...
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/szepes.jpg
placenames in Szepes megye:
http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g151.shtml

Help? Few more towns of origin on Hungarian/Slovakian church records that are hard for me to make out

freeb1893 — 2013-04-23 17:12:55Z

I’m looking for some help with decoding some places of origin for some of my ancestors which I’ve found on Catholic church records in the Austro-Hungarian empire.

The link to the record below is regarding the death of a Joannes Hornyak, the last death of 1775 in Forro, Hungary. It appears his place of origin might be included in that death record? Can anyone make that out? I can see it’s saying county Zemplen, but is that word Braixaronia*spelling the place?

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/9300f357-3fef-4c53-91d8-a...

The link below here is regarding marriage of George Csulik and Maria Szilva in Miskolcz, Hungary. It appears his marriage includes his place of origin as Zubrocz? I tried figuring out what place this might be, and the closest record I found to this town name is an immigration record to Ellis Island indicating it was in Galicia, and they were of Polish and Ruthenian ethnicity. I was thinking this perhaps might be referring to Zbarazh in present-day Ukraine? It would have fallen inside the boarders of Galicia. Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what else this origin might be?

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/72a37291-3a7e-4eb8-a4d2-c...

The link to the record below is regarding the death of Nicolaus Mrasz in Jaklovce, Slovakia, near Gelnica. I’m trying to make out his locality, it looks like Sloviuienis?

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/759c7396-f133-482e-92b3-b...

I have closer up pictures of all of these citations of origin for these ancestors if a closer look would help with any of them. I appreciate any suggestions you might have for the places the records are referring to. My experience with central/eastern European church records and locality name variation is fairly novice. Thanks again!

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

freeb1893 — 2013-04-23 13:44:11Z

Yeah I thought it might had been the street name. Thanks again for your help!

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

JPmiaou — 2013-04-23 06:08:27Z

The next-to-last column is most likely street names/addresses, not towns -- they all died in Miskolc if they're in this register.
Köporos is "stone dust-y", and makes sense as a street name.

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-23 00:09:33Z

Thank you. I could make out LIK on the record you provided but it did not look like CSULIK to me.

C^ULIK shows up in Slovakia's phone book.

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

freeb1893 — 2013-04-22 23:58:17Z

Yeah, I have a few baptisms that he and Anna Maria Kobalek were parents of the child, plus his death and re-marriage. The most consistent surname for him appears to be Csulik.

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-22 22:19:47Z

You're welcome freeb1893
Have you deciphered the male's surname on that document?

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

freeb1893 — 2013-04-22 21:24:08Z

Perfect! Thanks for your help!

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

freeb1893 — 2013-04-22 21:20:25Z

Perfect! Thanks for helping me out with this!

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-22 00:27:39Z

freeb1893
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/tantort/2003/palyazat/index.htm
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/tantort/2003/palyazat/37-49_beszt...
right top corner CHIZSNE and Alsolipnicza.

http://www.mapywig.org/m/wig100k/P51_S29_CHYZNE.jpg
down to CHYZNE with large 32 on top of the map;
large 28 on top down to Lipnica Wlk [wielka]

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-21 23:58:14Z

Thank you for providing the full image. Never fails, what I need to unscramble I can not.
The only thing I'm sure is Anna. You say that the surname is KOBELAK but sort of look like KOBLAK?
The KOBELAK who arrived NY Ellis Island were from Chizsne and Krempna.

Kobelah, Marina Krempna 27 1872 1899
Kobelak, Antonio Krempna, Austria 24 1886 1910
Kobelak, Iwan Krempna, Galicia 25 1885 1910
Kobelak, Iwan Krempna 17 1888 1905
Kobelak, Wasyl Krempna, Galicia 30 1880 1910
Kobylak, Anna Krempna 18 1886 1904
Kobylak, Stefan Krempna 25 1879 1904
Kobzlak, Michal Krempna, Austria 25 1884 1909
This location is in Poland in Podkarpackie wojewodztwo closer to Ukraine.

Kobelak, Anton Chizsne, Hungary 17 1893 1910
Kobilak, Anna Chizsne 16 1887 1903
Kobilak, Martin Chizsne 47 1855 1902
Kobiliak, Karlina Chizsne, Hungary 16 1891 1907
Kobylak, Tanatz Chizsne, Hungary 17 1892 1909
Kobyliak, Janos Chizsne 31 1862 1893

Chyzne is in Poland, for a short while Czechoslovakia and before that Chizsne, Arva megye, Hungary. Not far from Alsolipnica and Felsolipnica as suggested by me previously.

KOBELAK in Poland
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/kobelak.html
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/kobylak.html is showing in numbers in the former Arva now Orawa region of Poland.
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/kobielak.html
found even KOBLAK but nothing close to Slovakia border.
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/koblak.html
map of Poland's wojewodztwos:
http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/
Malopolskie and Podkarpackie would be historical Galicia.Austria.

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

kika3_au — 2013-04-21 23:56:04Z

I read the entry as:
Anna Kobdal/Kobdak/Kobdel (with accent accute over last vowel) wife of George Niolik or Nidlik died age 40 in the town of Kopotos (Umlaut over the o) originally from Lipnyitz or Lupnyitz, Arva megye.
Her son Nicolaus death age 14 is listed in the line below. He died in the town of Nagyatza (?)

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

freeb1893 — 2013-04-21 05:20:25Z

Here is a link to the full line/page image, in case see that can help any further:

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/ba3b5836-5b94-4c52-8a32-c...

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

freeb1893 — 2013-04-21 05:19:16Z

Sure! Here is the link to the full line image:

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/ba3b5836-5b94-4c52-8a32-c...

Greatly appreciate your help with this!

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

JPmiaou — 2013-04-21 03:48:10Z

An image showing more context might help. The best I can come up with is Alsó-Lipnicza and Felső-Lipnicza in Árva county (http://www.radixhub.com/radixhub/gazetteers/1877/arva.htm#00...); 'ni' versus 'nyi' is a fairly common spelling/pronunciation variant.

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-21 02:02:59Z

Thank you. Possible for you to give me the full line?
How is the surname written on the church records? Might you have an idea of a language of your ancestor? The surnames you listed do seem Slavic.
The handwriting is too pretty for me to make out the placename.

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

freeb1893 — 2013-04-21 01:21:12Z

Here is a link to a picture of the written record with the town name:

http://mediasvc.ancestry.com/image/429c4ef7-6b49-4351-a566-3...

The surname was either Kobula, Kobelak, Kobela. Something like that.

Re: Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-20 18:52:02Z

freeb1893
Please post the record so we all that frequent the boards can give you an opinion on the location.

Somehow the arveuh sounds like it could be Arva megye.
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/arva.jpg
placenames in Arva megye:
http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g108.shtml
The Lupnyitz ? maybe Lipnica?
2 locations in Arva megye: Alsó-Lipnica, Felsõ-Lipnica

what is the surname of the ancestor?

Need help trying to decipher a town of origin from Hungarian records

freeb1893 — 2013-04-20 17:47:00Z

I have an ancestor who migrated to Miskolcz. On her death record, her origin is listed as Lüpnyitz Arveuh? I haven't been able to decipher what locality that name refers to for the life of me. Does anyone have an idea what locality that may refer to?

I can post/e-mail a picture of the original handwritten record of that locality (via Miskolcz Catholic church records).

I assume it could be in any present-day country within the old Austria-Hungarian empire, including Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Ukraine, Romania, etc.

Any help would be appreciated!

Re: Janos Tornai - Need info please

CrystalMcGarry — 2013-04-14 15:49:16Z

Thanks for all your help Chris. It's much appreciated. All these years later, this line is still a dead end.

Re: family history

princessanws — 2013-04-13 20:40:37Z

Yes, I already had the marriage records for my great-great-uncle and great-great-aunts. However, you brought up a wonderful ancestry searching tool that I never thought about beforehand – searching the reverends/priests location, in order to determine the church location of marriages, baptisms, christenings, etc. So, thank you very much for that helpful tool! Additionally, thank you very much for going ahead and finding the location of the two reverends listed on the marriage license, as well as, providing me with the useful weblinks. I will definitely be contacting St. Emeric, in order to obtain the marriage information of my family members and then compare that to Laszlo & Erzsebet’s marriage information on the microfilm.

Re: family history

princessanws — 2013-04-13 20:39:16Z

You are correct regarding the reasons why I am hitting a dead end with my family search. I plan on going to my local LDS this week and seeking their assistance in having the microfilm transferred to their location. I will start with Laszlo & Erzsebet’s marriage information first, seeing that I have the source information and thus can obtain that record rather easily. It will hopefully provide me the missing parental information for both parties and Erzsebet’s birthplace. Then, I can start ordering and searching the appropriate microfilms.

Yes, the consensus for A. Szanto seems to be Abaujszántó. Thank you for the county and all the LDS catalog information.

To a certain extent, I do agree with you concerning personal appearance (phenotype) not-relating to ethnic origin, but only due to the aspect of spontaneous mutations and/or non-genetic characteristics (i.e. freckles). According to population genetics, DNA does provide a link to the specific phenotypes and genotypes that evolved and are collectively expressed by individuals of the same ethnic origin. For instance, blonde hair and blue eye phenotypes evolved in northern Europe, which is predominantly distributed in Scandinavian countries and to a lesser extent distributed throughout the world due to the mixing of ethnic groups. Within the Ashkenazi population, there is a telomerase mutation during cell division that increases their lifespan that is not distributed throughout the world, as of yet. Cystic fibrosis is an autosomal recessive allele that affects only Caucasians, in which the heterozygote is partially resistant to typhoid fever infection. Sickle Cell Disease is an autosomal recessive genetic blood disorder that evolved in sub-saharan (tropical and sub-tropical) regions where malaria is common, which is predominately distributed to sub-Saharan Africa, India and the Middle-East and to a lesser extent distributed throughout the world due to the mixing of ethnic groups. So, using DNA to profile phenotype and genotypes within ethnic groups can establish an ancestral linage.

Anyway, thank you again for all of your assistance!

Re: family history

JPmiaou — 2013-04-12 14:09:23Z

If they were Evangelical (aka Lutheran), that explains a lot about why you haven't found much on FamilySearch: they don't have any Lutheran records available online -- you have to order the microfilms (if available), and none of it is indexed.

I agree that "A. Szanto" is most likely Abaujszántó, which is in Abauj-Torna county. It was a fairly large town in the 19th century, with local churches for all the religions (Roman Catholic, Greek Catholic, Lutheran, Reformed, and Jewish). The FamilySearch Catalog has it as "Szántó (Abauj)": https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/results#count=20&...

It looks like Lutheran records for Szántó are all on one film, covering 1782-1895.

In reply to a previous post: you can't base anything on personal appearance, really, certainly not national or ethnic origin. There are just as many blond and blue-eyed Hungarians as there are dark-haired and brown-eyed ones, and everything in between. Hungary, like most of Europe, is full of people of mixed origins.

Re: family history

taltos017 — 2013-04-12 13:30:20Z

The Cuyahoga County, Ohio marriage records are on familysearch
The record for Antonia Nadassy/John Koterba states that they were married by Rev. Joe Peter. The record for Elizabeth Nadassy/Michael Bulgozdy states they were married by Rev. Joseph Hartel.
I found the Nadassy/Koterba info first, googled "Rev. Joseph Peter",Cleveland and got a result indicating he was at St. Emeric at some time. I then checked the Cleveland City Directory for 1915 on ancestry.com and Rev. Joseph Peter was listed as being at St. Emeric.
I did the same thing for Rev. Joseph Hartel. His results indicated he was also at St. Emeric for a time, also at at least one other church. Using Google, I found a website that listed the names of priests who served at St. Emeric's and the years they were there.

http://www.digitizingamerica.com/CustomStudios/Books/913_ste...

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~officer/pa...

Regards,

Chris Kovach

Re: family history

Haploh — 2013-04-12 02:26:01Z

My Jewish Hungarian family was blond and blue eyed. There are also redheads.
They were in Hungary for many generations.
Dena

Re: family history

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-11 21:12:00Z

You're welcome.
I sent off an e-mail to you with the location, what I think it is .
Abaújszántó, Abauj-Torna megye, Hungary
http://lazarus.elte.hu/moterkep/
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/abauj-t.jpg

Re: family history

princessanws — 2013-04-11 19:55:40Z

Thanks to Zlatica, I performed a websearch for a Hungarian pastor she mentioned (unrelated to my family) and found http://www.hungaryexchange.com. I then searched the marriage index and uncovered the following:

Laszlo Nadassy & Erzebet Ferdinand got married on October 14, 1890 in Miskolc, Borsod of the now defunct Austro-Hungarian Empire. Their religion was Evangelical, in which I am going to have to research information concerning that religion. Parental information is not listed for either party and birthplace information is not listed for Erzebet; however, Laszlo’s birth town was A. Szanto, but the birth county is not listed. Does anyone know where A. Szanto is located? I performed a websearch and came up with Antau (Selegszántó or Seleg-Szánto), Mattersburg, Burgenland, Austria and several places in Hungary.

Re: family history

princessanws — 2013-04-11 19:44:00Z

I am looking for information concerning my family whom emigrated to Ohio, US from the Austro-Hungarian Empire around the early 1900s. So that there is not any confusion, I am only looking for Hungarian information on them and their ancestors. I have all the information of my family from the time they landed in the US until their deaths - the ship manifests, naturalization records, census records, marriage records, and death certificates.

Erzsébet "Elizabeth" Ferdinand was born on Apr 15 1872 supposedly in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary. Her father was Franciscus Ferdinand whom was supposedly born in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary.

László Nádassy was born on Apr 17 1866 in A. Szanto (?). There are US records and family stories of him having various aliases - Ladislaus, Ladislav, Lasko, Sanislo, Lanslo. I have uncovered other Nádassy members whom came to the US prior to and after Laszlo’s family, but I cannot make a direct connection to them. His father was possibly named György "George" Nádassy.

László Nádassy married Erzsébet "Elizabeth" Ferdinsend/Ferdinand on October 14, 1890 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary. Their children are:

1. Károly "Charles" Nádassy was born on Sep 21 1891 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary whom married Thereza Komenar (Hungary) on February 16, 1921 in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio, US.

2. Lacze "George" Nádassy Lesler was born on Feb 18 1896 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary and married Lorraine Stone on Oct 27 1921 in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio, US.

3. Antónia "Antoinette" Nádassy was born in 1987 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary and married John Koterba on October 18, 1915 in St. Emeric's Catholic Church – Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio, US.

4. Erzi "Elizabeth Helen" Nádassy was born on May 1 1900 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary and married Michael Bulgozdy (Hungary) on July 26, 1923 in St. Emeric's Catholic Church – Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio, US.

5. Bira "Dorothy" Nádassy was born on Apr 14 1903 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary and married Eugene Platzner (Czechoslovakia).

According to ship manifests, László and his son, Károly "Charles," sailed on the Moltke from Hamburg, Germany on October 21 1904 and landed in the US on November 1 1904 whereas Erzsébet "Elizabeth" and the remaining children sailed on the Moltke from Hamburg, Germany on January 15 1905 and landed in the US on January 25 1905.

According to Erzi "Elizabeth Helen" Nádassy- Bulgozdy’s family, László Nádassy's brother was involved in the Hungarian Army on the wrong side and was beheaded for his actions. The wife of the beheaded brother warned László to leave," in which he took his wife and children and thus emigrated to the US for refuge. According to ship manifests and census records, there are other Nádassy family members whom came to the US prior to and after László. These individuals settled in New York City, New York; Chicago, Cook, Illinois; Pittsburg, Allegheny, Pennsylvania, Bridgeport, Fairfield, Connecticut, and Detroit, Wayne, Michigan.

According to my grandfather and his siblings, their father, Lacze "George" Nádassy Lesler, was Slavic and born in Hungary; yet, my grandfather and his siblings never learned about their father’s language or culture. My grandfather stated his grandparents (László & Erzsébet) were Hungarian acrobats in the travelling circus and came to the US and started a meat/deli business. Both my grandfather and his siblings stated, their father Lacze "George" Nádassy was delivering meat to a car dealership in Ohio and accidentally backed over a little boy riding his bike. Therefore, he changed his name from Lacze "George" Nádassy to George Nádassy Lesler with Nádassy now being his middle name, in order to keep their meat business without any backlash from the community. According to the ship manifest, Lacze "George" Nádassy-Lesler did not change his name when he emigrated for he was a young child. According to 1910 census records, he was living with László & Erzsébet. According to his marriage records, George used Károly "Charles” birthdate as his own and used Chicago, Cook, Illinois as his birth location. I know George changed his name from 1914-1920 because he was listed as living with Laszlo & Erzsébet in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio in the 1910 census records and his marriage with my great-grandmother transpired in 1921 in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio. According to census records, a Nádassy relative lived in Chicago, Cook, Illinois around that time frame. Furthermore, Károly "Charles” was in Chicago, Cook, Illinois in 1916, according to his WWI enlistment records. Obviously, George used his brother to obtain information to lie about his birthdate and birth location. Eventually, he came clean with his wife and his correct information was printed on his death certificate in 1940. Due to the Nádassy family being buried together, with the exception of Lacze "George," I am wondering if this accident caused him to be disowned from the family.

Regrettably, I cannot really seem to find any information prior to László Nádassy, Erzsébet "Elizabeth" Ferdinand, and their children emigration to the US from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, with the exception of László & Erzsébet’s marriage documentation. Again, I am only looking for Hungarian information on them and their ancestors for I have all US information. If you have any information regarding these surnames, then please contact me via email at princessanws@aol.com. If we are related, then I will be extremely happy to give you all of the information I uncover, but I just need a little boost with family names and information prior to their emigration. I have plenty of time to research our family ancestry and I will use all my resources to uncover everything. Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated...thanks!

Surnames - Nádassy, Ferdinsend/Ferdinand, Szatmány/Szathmány, Michely/Majer

princessanws — 2013-04-11 19:40:22Z

I am looking for information concerning my family whom emigrated to Ohio, US from the Austro-Hungarian Empire around the early 1900s. So that there is not any confusion, I am only looking for Hungarian information on them and their ancestors. I have all the information of my family from the time they landed in the US until their deaths - the ship manifests, naturalization records, census records, marriage records, and death certificates.

The following are the people in my family that I have confirmed:
Erzsébet "Elizabeth" Ferdinsend/Ferdinand was born on Apr 15 1872 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary. She married László Nádassy in 1890. Her father was Franciscus Ferdinsend/Ferdinand whom was supposedly born in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary.

László Nádassy was born on Apr 17 1866 either in Abony, Pest, Hungary or Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary. There are US records and family stories of him having various aliases - Ladislaus, Ladislav, Lasko, Sanislo, Lanslo. Possible brother was Bertolan Nádassy was born in 1869 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary. His father was György "George" Nádassy whom was supposedly born in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary whereas his mother was Borbála "Barbara" Szatmány/Szathmány whom was supposedly born prior to Oct 2 1856 in Austria, Hungary. Borbála "Barbara" parents were Franciscus Szatmány/Szathmány and Anna Michely/Majer.

László Nádassy married Erzsébet "Elizabeth" Ferdinsend/Ferdinand in 1890. Their children are:
1. Károly "Charles" Nádassy was born on Sep 21 1891 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary.
2. Lacze "George" Nádassy Lesler was born on Feb 18 1896 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary.
3. Antónia "Antoinette" Nádassy was born in 1987 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary and married a Koterba (Hungarian) in Ohio, US.
4. Erzi "Elizabeth Helen" Nádassy was born on May 1 1900 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary and married a Bulgozdy (Hungarian) in Ohio, US.
5. Bira "Dorothy" Nádassy was born on Apr 14 1903 in Miskolcz, Borsod-Abauj-Zemplen, Hungary and married a Platzner (Hungarian) in Ohio, US.

According to family lore, László Nádassy's brother (possibly Bertolan) was involved in the Hungarian Army on the wrong side and was beheaded for his actions. The wife of the beheaded brother warned László to leave," in which he took his wife and children and thus emigrated to the US for refuge. I believe she and her children came with them to the US, as well. According to ship manifests, László and his son, Károly "Charles," sailed on the Moltke from Hamburg, Germany on Oct 21 1904 and landed in the US on Nov 1 1904 whereas Erzsébet "Elizabeth" and the remaining children sailed on the Moltke from Hamburg, Germany on Jan 15 1905 and landed in the US on Jan 25 1905.

According to my grandfather, Gordon Lesler, his father Lacze "George" Nádassy was delivering meat to a car dealership in Ohio and accidentally backed over a little boy riding his bike. Therefore, he changed his name from Lacze "George" Nádassy to George Nádassy Lesler with Nádassy now being his middle name, in order to keep their meat business without any backlash from the community. According to the ship manifest, Lacze "George" Nádassy-Lesler did not change his name when he emigrated for he was an young child. According to 1910, 1930, and 1940 census records, he changed his name between 1911-1929. Regrettably, I cannot find census records for him for 1920 and thus I am unable to pinpoint the decade when he changed his name. Additionally, I have documented proof (marriage license to Lorraine Stone) that Lacze "George" lied about his birthplace, age, and location of where he lived when he arrived in the US, in order to protect his family's name. Eventually, he came clean with his wife and his correct information was printed on his death certificate in 1940. Due to the Nádassy family being buried together, with the exception of Lacze "George" , I am wondering if this accident caused him to be disowned from the family.

Regrettably, I cannot really seem to find any information prior to László Nádassy, Erzsébet "Elizabeth" Ferdinsend/Ferdinand, and their children emigration to the US from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Again, I am only looking for Hungarian information on them and their ancestors for I have all US information. If you have any information regarding these surnames, then please contact me via email at princessanws@aol.com. If we are related, then I will be extremely happy to give you all of the information I uncover, but I just need a little boost with family names and information prior to their emigration. I have plenty of time to research our family ancestry and I will use all my resources to uncover everything. Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated...thanks!

Re: Surnames - Nádassy, Ferdinsend/Ferdinand, Szatmány/Szathmány, Michely/Majer

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-11 16:03:03Z

princessanws
Since you posted an e-mail address in your query, I took the liberty and sent an e-mail on that address.

Have you looked in Abony's church records since you mentioned that Laszlo NADASSY was born there or Miskolcz?

placenames in Borsod megye:
http://www.bogardi.com/gen/g116.shtml
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/borsod.jpg

Might the surname be SZATMARY as from a location Szatmar and not Szatmany?

Re: family history

princessanws — 2013-04-11 15:43:46Z

taltos017,
You are correct concerning the ship manifests stating last residence and not birthplace. The only reason why I thought Miskolcz, Bordz, Hungary was correct because Erzsébet stated that as Laszlo’s birthplace on his death certificate. Maybe she lied because of the story of them fleeing Hungary for their safety...I do not know.

How did you uncover St. Emeric's Catholic Church as the location for some of the children’s marriage? The information I have online for them does not state a location. Anyway, thank you very much for explaining the difference between church registers and certificates. Church records seemed to be the opposite of civil records – the registers listed birth/death/marriage information for everyone in that county for a specific year, the certificates are the actual documents, and the returns are the portions given to the families for records. Additionally, thank you very much for the St. Emeric's Catholic Church information and the diocese of Cleveland information. I will definitely take your suggestion and write to St. Emeric's Catholic Church for records information.

Re: family history

taltos017 — 2013-04-11 14:38:05Z

Hi,

It might be time to backtrack a little bit.
The emigration record stated that the LAST RESIDENCE was Miskolcz. There was no column on the manifest for birthplace.

I think you would be well-served to try to find church records in Cleveland, Ohio. Antonia's marriage to John Koterba took place at St. Emeric's Catholic Church on 18 Oct 1915, and Elizabeth's marriage took place on 26 Jul 1923 at the same church. You can contact the church, the marriage records should give Antonia's and Elizabeth's birthplaces, ages (maybe even birthdates), and their parents's names, including mother's maiden name. Here is a link to the church's website:
http://stemeric.com/
You could try calling the phone number on the website or send them a letter. Be clear about the kind of information you're looking for. There are two kinds of records: The records in the church registers, and "certificates" that were issued to the parents or newly-married couple. You don't want a certificate, it has little info other than the bride and groom's names, and the date of marriage and names of witnesses. If you send them a letter, include a self-addressed, stamped envelope to make it easier for them to reply.
Hopefully the church will be willing to help you, but they have no obligation to do so. If need be, you can contact the archives of the diocese of Cleveland.They charge for their research, and their website says it may take 2-3 months for a reply.
Either way, give them the marriage dates, it will make it easier for them to find the records.
http://dioceseofcleveland.org/index.php?option=com_content&a...

Re: family history

princessanws — 2013-04-11 14:12:34Z

JPmiaou,

Thank you very much for your quick response and informative information concerning traditional Hungarian religious belief and baptisms. What you stated makes sense and is what I assumed based upon the little bit of information I have learned about religion as I have been doing my ancestry research.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you for taking time out of your life to assist me in searching for my family’s information! I greatly appreciate all of your assistance! I do have mixed feelings regarding your findings – I feel sad/frustrated that you did not come up with anything either, but I also feel relieved that I have not missed something so simple. I have extensively searched Ancestry & FamilySearch online records for years and have come up with nothing besides US information. I mean, I have searched from 1850-1906 in all of Hungary with the surnames of Ferdinand and with a sound index of Nádassy, in which I have hit a dead end. I have a few hypotheses, which means I may never find out my family’s ancestry.
1. Ferdinand and Nádassy are not my great-great-grandparents original surnames and thus names they used when they arrived to the US.
2. My great-great grandparents are not from Hungary and used that location when they arrived to the US.
3. My great-great grandparents were actually Jewish and thus would not be listed in the Hungarian Catholic Church records. I have looked at old Austro-Hungary ethnic maps and there were Jewish communities in Hungary during that time period…some were close to Miskolcz.

The names of the parents and grandparents of Laszlo & Erzsébet, as well as, the story of the Laszlo’s brother fighting on the wrong side of the Hungarian Army and thus became beheaded came from the originator of this board…not from my family. According to Cheryl, that information was passed down from her father whom was the son of Erzi "Elizabeth Helen" Nádassy, a daughter of Laszlo & Erzsébet. Regrettably, I never heard any of that information from my family and the information I have, she has never heard from her family. Of course, the birthdates and birth locations came from US documents and grave inscriptions.

My grandfather and his siblings stated their father, Lacze "George" Nádassy Lesler, was Slavic and born in Hungary; yet, my grandfather and his siblings never learned Magyar or about the Hungarian/Slavic culture. Regrettably, they never discussed any heritage or culture outside of the UK because that was all they really knew and was the original location of their mother’s family. My grandfather stated his grandparents (Laszlo & Erzsébet) were Hungarian acrobats in the travelling circus and came to the US and started a meat/deli business. According to my grandfather and his siblings, their father accidently ran over a boy at a car dealership while making a meat/deli delivery, in which Lacze "George" Nádassy changed his name to George Nádassy Lelser. According to my great-grandparents marriage license, George used Károly "Charles” birthdate as his own and used Chicago, Cook, Illinois as his birth location. I know George changed his name from 1914-1920 because he was listed as living with Laszlo & Erzsébet in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio in the 1910 census records and his marriage with my great-grandmother transpired in 1921 in Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio. According to census records, a Nádassy relative lived in Chicago, Cook, Illinois around that time frame. Furthermore, Károly "Charles” was in Chicago, Cook, Illinois in 1916, according to his WWI enlistment records. Obviously, George used his brother to obtain information to lie about his birthdate and birth location. Anyway, my grandfather collected German steins and ate German/Ashkenazi Jewish food and not traditional Hungarian/Slavic food, even though my grandfather never travelled to Europe. My grandfather and his siblings were light skinned with medium to dark blondish hair color, in which I assumed they were taking after their mother (the UK side of the family). However, WWI/WWII documents for Károly "Charles" Nádassy, Laszlo & Erzsébet’s son, he was light skinned with blonde hair and blues eyes. From ethnic profile research, light skinned with blond hair and blue eyes does not fit the modern ethnic profile of Hungarian/Slavics. Personally, I have no reason to connect to an ethnic group outside of the UK (most of my family is originally from the UK); yet, I have always had a strong connection to German and Ashkenzai Jewish cultures. I maybe young but I have a rather old soul, so maybe what I have always felt was a past life coming through…maybe it is my ancestor spirits telling me to search in that direction…I really do not know. It is frustrating and rather upsetting not knowing where my family is from and what happened to them!

Re: family history

JPmiaou — 2013-04-11 06:17:00Z

I'm not finding any of the births you list in Miskolc's civil registrations -- all but the first one ought to be there. (Civil registration began on Oct. 1, 1895.) I checked all the way through the following month on some of them. This means that either the dates or the birthplaces are wrong. Maybe they listed Miskolc on U.S. documents as the nearest place of any size that people might possibly have heard of?

Re: family history

JPmiaou — 2013-04-11 05:29:14Z

Regarding baptismal dates: in the 1800s and into the 1900s, baptism was generally performed within a day or two of birth -- within an hour or two, if the newborn was weak or sickly -- because the traditional belief was that unbaptised babies couldn't get into Heaven if they died. This was the practice/belief for both Catholics and most Protestants.

Re: family history

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-10 16:51:10Z

You are very much welcome Amy.
One would think since the arrival manifest has Miskolcz that this is the location that the church records would be reading for you like a family tree. Not 100% sure but up to 1918 I think church was the IT for birth records. After 1920 church and civil records.
Zlatica

Re: family history

princessanws — 2013-04-10 10:55:22Z

Foremost, thank you very much for your response and wealth of information!

Yes, I know the Nadassy surname has been spelt and misspelt various different ways, in which I have been searching all possible variations. I have even found various spellings for Laszlo. It definitely makes researching your ancestry difficult! For my family, their first names where written in Magyar on the ship manifests and then they started going by the English names afterwards. Originally, I had the English names and searched the Ellis Island records for Nadassy (with spelling variations), in order to come up with the ship manifests. I thought I came up with the correct individuals and verified their English to Hungarian names and birthdates. Regrettably, the ship manifests are the last information I have of my family and I am having a difficult time obtaining documentation from Hungary.

I have noticed previous Nadassy (with spelling variations) individuals whom came to the US prior to Laszlo and his family and have wondered if they were connected to my family. Yet, those individuals seemed to have stayed in NYC, in which my family moved right to Ohio after arriving in the US. So, it makes me think that maybe they are not connected because families and even cultural families tend to stick together and thus form cultural communities.

I did a Google search for Hungarian ancestry and went through probably 50 websites and never came across RadixIndex. Regrettably, most of the Nadassy information on there is for early 1800s or after WWI. Up to now, I have tried searching for Laszlo Nadassy's parental records online and come up with numerous information, but none match the parental information that was previously provided to me by another board member. So, it is difficult when I cannot find any documentation to prove Laszlo's parents that were previously stated nor do I have any other parental names to go by. Even all of the US records do not list his parents, but lists his wife's father's name. Yet, I still cannot find any information on his wife's lineage either. It makes me wonder if Elizabeth is going by a middle name instead of her first name. More shockingly is that I cannot find marriage records for Laszlo and Elizabeth or even birth/baptismal records for their children. Anyway, I am pretty sure I will eventually find information to connect the pieces to my family, but I may have to start searching all pre-1900 Nadassy families (with spelling variations) and hope to make a connection back to Laszlo. Ugh!

I am not sure if you or someone else can answer this question, but I am completely clueless when it comes to non-Pagan religions. In traditional Catholic Hungary, when would it be appropriate to baptize a child? Most LDS church records I find for my family's surnames do not list birth records but rather baptismal records. So, I am trying to figure out if baptizing transpires during the first year of life, at 5, or much later in life, in order to determine if the individuals listed on the LDS site are actually my family members.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you ZlaticaBeca for all of your assistance and information! ~Amy

Re: family history

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-10 02:33:01Z

princessanws

Somehow I fell like the NADASI/NADASZI/NADASSI/NADASSY/NADASY who arrived NY Ellis Island are connected to each other. It is a long process of elimination but someplace in Miskolcz's church records should be another location from where your ancestor came to Miskolcz. Did you look if there is an 1869 census for this location in LDS?

first name sites as some of the first names from the arrival manifest are not correct Magyar.
http://web.archive.org/web/20051128070722/www.fam.aust.com/t...

http://www.progenealogists.com/hungary/names.htm

Re: family history

ZlaticaBeca — 2013-04-10 02:08:29Z

http://www.radixindex.com/en/surname_index/surname/nadassy
http://www.radixindex.com/en/surname_index/surname/nadasy
http://www.radixindex.com/en/surname_index/surname/nadassi

In Slovakia in 1995 :
http://slovniky.korpus.sk/?w=nadasi&c=r217&d=psken&a...