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Parish Register Question

lpehr  (View posts) Posted: 24 Jun 2009 4:11AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Pehr
I am researching Pehr family in Deutsch Schuetzen/Nemet Lo. I have the parish register microfilm from the LDS Library. In the columns where parents and (I am assuming) godparents/sponsors are named there is a third line. It says either Zsellerek or foldmivelek (as best I can tell). Is this a way of designating "cottager" (renter) or land holder (owner). If not, I would appreciate information as to what these words mean. Thanks!

Re: Parish Register Question

Mohnbauerin  (View posts) Posted: 24 Jun 2009 4:03PM GMT
Classification: Query
"Zsellerek or foldmivelek"
both words are not anything in german - so maybe a misspelling or hungarian language. think more the last. :o)
so maybe ask at the hungarian board if someone can understand the words there.

zsellerek

Mohnbauerin  (View posts) Posted: 24 Jun 2009 4:10PM GMT
Classification: Query

Re: zsellerek

lpehr  (View posts) Posted: 24 Jun 2009 7:41PM GMT
Classification: Query
You are right...the words are Hungarian. The church records from this area are in a combination of Hungarian and Latin. It is my understanding that German was not used for written records until almost 1900.
I'm sure that some of the Hungarian speakers who frequent this board will have an answer.

Re: Parish Register Question

ram685  (View posts) Posted: 25 Jun 2009 11:39AM GMT
Classification: Query
I checked the Hungarian-English Genealogical Dictionary (http://www.genealogy.ro/dictionary/) and found the following. This is a very useful resource for anyone working in the 19th century parish records.

földmivelö, földmövelö, földmöves = farmer, land worker, farm worker, peasant, administrator of an estate

As for the second word, there are no entries for Hungarian words that begin with Z.

Re: Parish Register Question

ram685  (View posts) Posted: 25 Jun 2009 11:45AM GMT
Classification: Query
A further search of the Internet shows that Zsellerek is a Hungarian term that refers to "landless peasants". It does appear that the two terms then indicate whether the individual was or was not a land owner.

Re: Parish Register Question

lpehr  (View posts) Posted: 26 Jun 2009 2:50AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you...that pretty much confirms what I thought regarding the words themselves.
It would be great to hear from someone familiar with the reason that this information was included in the parish register.

Re: Parish Register Question

ram685  (View posts) Posted: 26 Jun 2009 3:14AM GMT
Classification: Query
The parish records from Poppendorf/Patafalva that I've worked with also contained this information--mostly for a period of time in the mid-1800s. I can't remember where I saw it but somewhere I had read about this notation being related to the Hungarian Revolution. If I can find the information again I'll post it.

Re: Parish Register Question

reich154  (View posts) Posted: 27 Jun 2009 4:53AM GMT
Classification: Query
May I add two things
1.) The meaning of the word "zsellér" changed throw Centuries. The landless is one of the meanings, but it does not ment everytime and everywhere. I think, the best would be to understand as "poor-peasant", and later to analyse the property-situation of your ancestor.
2,)Be careful with the referred dictionary. I clicked to the link, I got it, then my Avast viruskiller signed: I found here a trojan virus-program and breake the contact.
Lajos Reich, Hungary.

Re: Parish Register Question

LajosReich  (View posts) Posted: 27 Jun 2009 9:31PM GMT
Classification: Query
By my sources in Patafalva was only one landowner: baron Draskovits, and one man rented lands of him: Rothauser Isidor. Of course it does not mean, that there was no more people who had lands, mostly smaller ones.....
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