Hello again Mick,

I’m not sure if you’ve uncovered the information below since you message of 30 May 2012, but I found the baptism index for the person I believe to be your Robert Winkle at the Irish Family History Foundation (IFHF) website for County Louth. The index shows that Robert was baptized in the Dundalk Catholic Church. These indexes do not provide the names of a child’s parents. You either have to know who the parents were, or find their names through more research, or just order a transcription of the baptism from the IFHF.

You had stated in your message to Ancestry.com that Robert’s mother was Bridget. The IFHF search engine accepted this name. But I still didn’t know Robert’s father’s first name, and so I guessed at it. It was not a difficult guess as the search engine accepted Robert as Robert’s father.

The index follows:


1 match for the search criteria: Winkle (plus variants) Robert 1869 Parish: DUNDALK (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Louth
Surname: Winkle
First Name: Robert
Father's Surname: Winkle
Father's First Name: Robert
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Bridget

Year: 1869

Parish/District: DUNDALK (RC)
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In case I hadn’t mentioned this in a previous post, before accessing indexes at the IFHF you’ll need to register with the website. You’ll be able to access the indexes I locate for free, but will have to purchase credits to obtain baptism or marriage transcriptions. The transcriptions will be sent to your computer once payment is made by credit card, so there is no waiting for the record.

Next I wanted to see if I could find out what Bridget’s maiden name was. To do this I went to the Ancestry.com website and accessed the collection, “Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911.” I didn’t find an index for Robert at this point, but did locate an index for the person who may be his brother Robert. This index shows that a Robert “Winckle” was born in Ballicollig, Cork, on 15 April 1867. His parents are listed as Robert Winckle and Bridget Carroll. I didn’t think this George had any connection with Robert Winkle, as George was born in Cork and Robert in Louth, two counties several miles apart from one another. But then I remembered your message to Ancestry.com stating that Robert’s father was in the Army, and at this point thought it feasible that Robert and George were brothers, as their father may have moved around the country, being as he was in the military.

The civil birth index for George follows:


Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911

Name: George Winckle
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 15 Apr 1867
Birth Place: Ballincollig, Cork, Ireland
Baptism Place: Ballincollig, Cork, Ireland
Father's Name: Robert Winckle
Mother's name: Bridget Carroll
FHL Film Number: 101149

Ancestry.com. Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 [database on-line].
Provo, UT: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.

Original data: Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620–1911. Index.
Salt Lake City, Utah: Family Search.
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I then went back to the IFHF baptism index for Robert to see if the search engine would accept Carroll as Bridget’s maiden name. This proved to be the case. The revised baptism index for Robert Winkle is below:


1 match for the search criteria: Winkle (plus variants) Robert 1869 Parish: DUNDALK (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Louth
Surname: Winkle
First Name: Robert
Father's Surname: Winkle
Father's First Name: Robert
Mother's Surname: Carroll
Mother's First Name: Bridget

Year: 1869

Parish/District: DUNDALK (RC)
____


Thus, Robert Winkle’s parents were Robert Winkle and Bridget Carroll.

The above index pertains to a baptism. I wanted to see if I could locate a civil birth index for Robert. I found what may be his birth index at the Latter Day Saints (LDS) website at: https://www.familysearch.org/#form=historical_records

But, this index, which does not include the names of the child’s parents, shows that a Robert Winckle was born in Dundalk in the year 1868, not 1869. There may be an explanation for this however. If Robert had been born in December of 1869, he may not have been baptized until the following year, 1869.

The index is below:


"Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958,"

Name: Robert Winckle

Registration District: Dundalk
Event Type: BIRTHS
Registration Quarter and Year: 1868
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101045

Volume Number: 17
Page Number: 752

Digital Folder Number: 4187285
Image Number: 00415
Source Citation
"Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/
pal:/MM9.1.1/FYRK-8WR : accessed 7 July 2012), Robert Winckle, 1868.
____


Based on the index above you can order Robert’s birth record from the General Register Office) GRO in Roscommon Town, County Roscommon. His birth record will give the names of his parents, including his mother’s maiden name, as well as his father’s occupation, and where the family had been living when Robert Was born.

For information about ordering birth, marriage, and death records from the GRO, as well as the fees involved, go to the GRO website at: http://www.groireland.ie/

Earlier you saw the birth index for George “Winckle” found at Ancestry.com. His birth record can also be ordered from the GRO in Roscommon Town. But, I also found George’s birth index at the LDS website, which pretty much gives the same information as the index uncovered at Ancestry.

The LDS index follows:


"Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881," George, 1867

Name: George
Gender: Male

Baptism/Christening Date:
Baptism/Christening Place: BALLINCOLLIG, CORK, IRE
Birth Date: 15 Apr 1867
Birthplace: Ballincollig, Cork, Ire

Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:

Father's Name: Robert Winckle
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:

Mother's Name: Bridget Carroll
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C70132-1
System Origin: Ireland-VR
Reference Number: 2:LS4P7R

Source Film Number: 101149 = Quarterly returns of births in Ireland, 1864-1955:
Births v. 10 1867

Source Citation
"Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F58F-8F7 : accessed 7 July 2012), George, 1867.
____


George’s birth record can be found in LDS microfilm number 101149. If you don’t want to send to the GRO for George’s birth, you can order microfilm number 101149 online at the following link:
https://familysearch.org/films/lookup/products/view/?film=10...

Before ordering the film however, you will have to register with the LDS. Registration is free. There is a small charge to rent the microfilm. Payment is made by credit card. You can have the film sent to your nearest Family History Center or participating public library. The film can’t leave the FHC or the library. You have to view it on site. If you don’t wish to order the film online, you can order it in person from the Family History Center.

Next I found the LDS marriage index for Robert Winkle and Bridget Carroll. This index shows the couple were married in Limerick, Ireland on 1 July 1866. The index further shows that Robert’s father is William. Bridget’s father is also named William. The index isn’t clear if Robert and Bridget were married in the City of Limerick.

The index is below:


"Ireland, Marriages, 1619-1898," Robert Winkle, 1866

Groom's Name: Robert Winkle
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:

Bride's Name: Bridget Carroll
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:


Marriage Date: 01 Jul 1866
Marriage Place: Limerick, Ireland

Groom's Father's Name: William Winkle Groom's Mother's Name:

Bride's Father's Name: William Carroll Bride's Mother's Name:

Groom's Race:

Groom's Marital Status: Single

Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:

Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70236-4
System Origin: Ireland-EASy
Reference Number: p 249

Source Film Number: 101499 = Marriage records, 1845-1870 in the General Registry Office of Ireland:
Marriages v. 14-15 1866.

Source Citation
"Ireland, Marriages, 1619-1898," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/
pal:/MM9.1.1/FGDQ-T8L : accessed 7 July 2012), Robert Winkle, 1866.
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The marriage record for Robert and Bridget can be found on LDS microfilm number 101499. You can order this film online at: https://familysearch.org/films/lookup/products/view/film/101...

Earlier you saw that Robert Winkle was baptized in the Dundalk, County Louth, Catholic Church. It’s because of his birth index that I thought his parents would have also been married in a Catholic Church. But I was wrong about that. After several search attempts at the IFHF, I finally uncovered the marriage index for Robert “Winckle” and Bridget Carroll, showing they were married in St. Michael’s Church of Ireland in 1866.

Church of Ireland marriages from this time period traditionally give the names of the fathers (but not the mothers) of the bride and groom. The IFHF marriage index agrees with the LDS marriage index above that William Winckle was Robert’s father.

The index follows:


1 match for the search criteria: Winckle (plus variants) Robert 1866 Parish: ST. MICHAEL'S (CI)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Limerick
Surname: Winckle
First Name: Robert
Spouse's Surname: Carroll
Spouse's First Name: Bridget
Father's Surname: Winckle
Father's First Name: William
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1866

Parish/District: Parish: ST. MICHAEL'S (CI)
____


With Bridget Carroll as the primary partner in the marriage index, the IFHF search engine accepted William Carroll as her father:


1 match for the search criteria: Carroll (plus variants) Bridget 1866 Parish: ST. MICHAEL'S (CI)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Limerick
Surname: Carroll
First Name: Bridget
Spouse's Surname: Winckle
Spouse's First Name: Robert
Father's Surname: Carroll
Father's First Name: William
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1866

Parish/District: Parish: ST. MICHAEL'S (CI)
____


To view a photo and read a description of St. Michael’s Church of Ireland, located on Pery Square, Limerick City, go to:
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record...


Next I found Bridget Winkle and four of her children in the 1871 census. She and her children are living in the household of Thomas and Mary Aldworth and their daughter Elizabeth. in an address of Laburnham Cottages, Aldershot, England. Bridget’s husband is not in the household.

The census shows that Bridget is a lodger in the household and that she is 28 years old and married. The census also shows she was born in Ireland. Bridget’s children in the household are 7 year old William, born Ireland; 4 year old George, born Ireland; 2 year old Robert, born Ireland, and 6 month old Andrew, born Aldershot. Also in the household is Bridget’s mother, 60 year old widow Ann “Carrell,” also born in Ireland. This would be further confirmation that Bridget’s maiden name was Carroll.

The 1871 census transcription from Ancestry.com follows:


1871 England Census

Civil parish: Aldershot
Town: Aldershot
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address: Laburnham Cottages

Registration district: Farnham
Sub-registration district: Frimley
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 534
Piece: 816
Folio: 42
Page Number: 9


Name, Relation to Head of Household, Condition as to Marriage, Sex, Age, Occupation, Where Born

Thomas Aldworth, Head, Married, Male, 44, Bootmaker, Ireland
Mary Aldworth, Wife, Married, Female, 40, Middlesex London
Elizabeth Aldworth, Daughter, Female, Scholar, 15, Middlesex London
Bridget Winkle, Lodger, Married, Female, 28, Soldiers Wife, Ireland
William Winkle, Son, Male, 7, Scholar, Ireland
George Winkle, Son, Male, 4, Scholar, Ireland
Robert Winkle, Son, Male, 2, Ireland
Andrew Winkle, Son, Male, 6 Months, Hants Aldershot
Ann Carrell, Mother, Widow, Female, 60, Ireland

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 816; Folio: 42; Page: 9; GSU roll: 838698.
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The census shows that Bridget Winkle has a 7 year old son named William. I hadn’t known about William until finding him in the census. If his age is accurate in the census, he would have been born in Ireland circa 1863-1864, before his parents had married. I looked for William’s birth and baptism indexes at the IFHF, LDS, and Ancestry.com websites, but found no records for his birth or baptism.

The census also shows that Bridget has a 6 month old son named Andrew, born in Aldershot, Hants, or Hampshire.

I located Andrew’s civil birth index at the FreeBMD website at: http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

The index shows that Andrew’s birth was recorded in the Farnham Registration District for the September quarter of 1870:


Births September Quarter 1870

Winckle Andrew

Registration District: Farnham

Volume: 2a

Page: 105
____


Andrew’s birth record can be found in Volume 2a, Page 105 of the General Register Office (GRO) birth records. You can order the birth record from the GRO in Southport, by going to the following GRO link:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Concerning the street address in the 1871 census above, I found a Laburnham Road in Aldershot on a Google Map, where the Aldworth and Winkle families may have lived. To view the map go to: http://tinyurl.com/75wmxo7

Once at the map left-click on the letter A and a drop-down box will appear. Click on the thumbnail photo in the Street View and you’ll be able to take a tour of Aldershot. With a little navigation, you can find Laburnham Road, located off Grosvenor Road.


Best of Luck Mick,

Dave