Staffordshire, Derbyshire ,Leicestershire border changes
Does anyone know anything about historical changes in the borders of these counties. I am researching someone whose origin is to say the least a black hole. I remember reading about changes in the area where they meet, in the attached the area between a place called Measham and Croxall and Lichfield Shenstone. Thanks
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Re: Staffordshire, Derbyshire ,Leicestershire border changes
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Re: Staffordshire, Derbyshire ,Leicestershire border changes
Thanks I was hoping for boundary changes in the 18th-19th century, I'll keep looking
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Re: Staffordshire, Derbyshire ,Leicestershire border changes
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Re: Staffordshire, Derbyshire ,Leicestershire border changes
Why not post details of the person who is causing you so much trouble? It might be easier to help if we know the specific problem.
Caroline
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Re: Staffordshire, Derbyshire ,Leicestershire border changes and George Ross
Okay here goes, I do have previous posts about him I am searching for any birth or baptism records for my 4 x grt-grandfather George Ross, b 1798. His family lived in Bloxwich and Walsall from the early 1800s. There were many Rosses in that area from the mid 1700’s and still are. Based only on the 1861 census the family and other researchers assumption has been that he was from Chesterfield, Derbyshire, and this is a lesson in not making assumptions, the 1841 and 1851 census only say not born in Staffordshire, the 1861 says Chesterfield, Derbyshire, the 1871, Chesterfield, Yorkshire, and 1881 says just Chesterfield, no county. I know he was illiterate from various marriage certificates, maybe the census taker assumed he meant Chesterfield, Derbyshire. There were very few Rosses in Derbyshire between 1750 and 1820. I hired a specialist researcher in Derbyshire to look for him, or a possible family, no luck. My next idea other places named Chesterfield, there is a Chesterfield in Staffordshire, it is/was a very small place north of Shenstone, south of Lichfield. I can't find any information about the village. Old maps show a workhouse there; does anyone know anything about it, the name? Where to find records of it? He married Sarah Bickley in Wolverhampton, April 12 1818 at St Peter’s Collegiate Church, apparently St Peters was the ‘head office’ for the other local churches, St Peters did all the weddings, other churches could only do baptisms and burials, weddings were more profitable. Sarah had family in Walsall, Pelsall, Shenstone plus Measham and Croxall. I have good information about his 12 children and many descendants, including family records and photographs. His older children were baptised Church of England, his younger children RC, his 2 oldest sons were Joseph and Thomas, I hoped perhaps Georges father might have been named Joseph or Thomas. In general the records for Bloxwich and Walsall seem quite good for the time, so I’m not convinced his was just not recorded. A cousin in that area has done some original research at the Birmingham archdiocese and at local history centres. There is a record for a George ROSS baptism 13 Jul 1794 St Peter and Paul, Wolverhampton, this record has been researched and is incorrect There are also records for various families named "Roes" in Derbyshire including a George Roes baptism on February 27, 1799, Chapel en le Frith, Derbyshire, parents Jonn and Nelly Roes. Initially I thought this could be the family but with a transcription error, but there are numerous Roes families in Derbyshire, it seems unlikely that they should all have been Ross or mis-transcribed. My conclusion after several years is that he was an alien or perhaps more likely especially if he did come from Chesterfield, Staffordshire, he came from the workhouse, was either illegitimate or adopted??????? In all likelihood I am just grasping at straws. Any and all ideas are welcome.
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Re: Staffordshire, Derbyshire ,Leicestershire border changes and George Ross
A difficult one, obviously! I suspect lack of knowledge and misunderstandings, by George, his family and census enumerators, rather than boundary changes, have led to the inconsistent and somewhat misleading census entries.
Just to be 100% accurate: on checking, the 1851 census image actually says 'N.K.', Not Known, and I think this is the crux of the problem. It doesn't actually say he wasn't born in Staffs. The 1841 census does say 'N' to 'born in county?' but I suspect that's what the enumerator would put when he couldn't put 'Y' for an 'I don't know, for sure' response. The later censuses are confused by there being 2 Chesterfields in the Midlands and by a geographically-ignorant enumerator (?Yorkshire?!?!)
My gut feeling would be the same as yours and if he was illegitimate or orphaned, or for some other reason grew up in (or was adopted from) a workhouse then he probably wouldn't have known exactly where he was born, even if he regarded his origins as being in the Chesterfield, Staffs area. The area IS close to the southern border of the county, so if he was in the workhouse it's reasonable for there to be an element of doubt exactly where he/his mother had come from.
I think the only thing to do is to work with the hypothesis that he was in the workhouse that you've identified at Chesterfield, Staffs and search for any records for that place. BUT the Staffs Archives catalogue is online, and I couldn't find anything relating to a workhouse there. I think this is one to explore with the Staffs Archives staff - you first need to establish the name of the workhouse, and if it existed when George was young, then find any records for it.
Good luck; it might be a mystery that can never be solved ...
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Re: Staffordshire, Derbyshire ,Leicestershire border changes and George Ross
I found 2 sources since posting my last reply, the Staffordshire places website, Shenstone page says-'There was a parish workhouse at Chesterfield which was in use before 1834' Another source brownhillsbob.com says-'Shenstone Workhouse was just outside Chesterfield, hidden well away from any settlement. There was an adjoining field which is labeled the Poor’s Garden on the 1818 map. It was closed when Shenstone joined St Michael’s Union in Lichfield in the 1830s and was subsequently demolished. There is a relatively modern house on the site and no visible trace of the workhouse. There appear to be no surviving records so we don’t know what it looked like or how many of the poor could be accommodated there'. I agree there are many reasons why he could have grown up in the workhouse-from being the illegitimate son of one of the Rosses in Bloxwich, and subsequently being taken into the family, being part of a family that ended up in the workhouse because they couldn't support themselves, were ill, died etc to just being a stray child who was adopted into a Ross family. I started seriously looking at Chesterfield Staffs, for among other reasons because I couldn't figure out how he met his wife, if he lived in Derbyshire. I keep hoping that some sort of apprenticeship record will show up, to show who trained him as a cabinet locksmith, as shown on 1851 census, by 1861 he is listed as a stirrup maker. There is a family story that George and his son Joseph, invented a new, much better type of stirrup, the design for which was subsequently stolen by persons unknown. Thanks for your reply
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