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Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

david11000 — 2013-06-18 13:31:59Z

"Where did you find a Susan? "

Your post of 16 June!

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-18 13:23:56Z

Hello David, 1538 BDC, Thurleigh ,Bedford, Family tree circles, and a vague relation many,many years ago(though these are a bit iffy.)

Where did you find a Susan? Thomas of 1640 was a son of Thomas and Margaret Pettit.
In the records of marriage of Francis and Mary cooper in London, their location is Thurleigh Beds although why
they went to London to wed ...?
I did begin with Francis 1806 in Tasmania. J.

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

johnpartridge10 — 2013-06-18 12:43:13Z

So are we thinking now that Francis Colgrave is the one baptised at Sharnbrook on 1 Aug 1701 to Thomas, yeoman & Rebecca; who also had daughter Sarah baptised there on 22 Nov 1710. These are the only 2 Colgrave entries in the Sharnbrook PR.

Rebecca Colgrave, widow was buried Thurleigh on 6 July 1748 age 77 where it says she was from MAVORNE. Where's that?

Next we're off to Bolnhurst where there's a marriage on 22 Dec 1730 of John Wadsworth, farmer to Sarah Colgrave of Thurleigh. I reckon she's the daughter of Thomas & Rebecca. Sarah Wadsworth buried 6 Oct 1775 & John Wadsworth buried 5 Feb 1782. In the Inhabitants of Bolnhurst 1750 (from BLARS) John Wadsworth, churchgoer, had his abode at Mavorne. So Sarah's mother Rebecca was living with her when she died, so where/when did father Thomas get buried. John & Sarah had 2 children baptised at Bolnhurst, the first James on 26 Dec 1731 who most likely is the 'infant of Bolnhurst' buried at Thurleigh on 15 Oct 1733.

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-18 12:33:23Z

Thanks John, I have: Samuel Colgrave borb 16.9.1745 in Blestoe. He was the 7th child of Francis and Mary Cooper of Sharnbrook, Thurleigh.

Samuel was a Yeoman. He married Sarah Payne in Felmersham on 26.1.1767. He and Sarah are buried near together in Thurleigh.

They are the parents of Francis b 31.8.1770 who m Frances Bourne, whom we have just done. J

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-18 12:32:04Z

Re: CROFT

beargrassgulch — 2013-06-17 22:30:20Z

Dr. Frank Croft died 14 Apr 1938 in Clovis, Curry, New Mexico, USA. He is buried in Portales, NM

Re: CROFT

beargrassgulch — 2013-06-17 22:30:18Z

Dr. Frank Croft died 14 Apr 1938 in Clovis, Curry, New Mexico, USA. He is buried in Portales, NM

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

johnpartridge10 — 2013-06-17 18:19:26Z

Samuel Colgrave was of Bletsoe on his marriage to Sarah Pain at Felmersham on 26 Jan 1767. She may be daughter of Israel & Susan Pain baptised at Felmersham on 15 Jun 1746.

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

david11000 — 2013-06-17 14:28:37Z

Excellent John! Good find. That sews up that generation. I'd seen the Cooper Colgrave baptism, which was good circumstantial evidence, but not, on its own, proof that the London marriage was the right one. But the parish register entry was very kind to us, as in 1723 you're often lucky to get more than the two names. I wonder why the two of them travelled down to the City to marry? A bit of a hike from Thurleigh.

David

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

johnpartridge10 — 2013-06-17 13:12:50Z

David; FreeReg have the St Benet, Pauls Wharf, City of London marriage on 13 July 1723 of Francis Colgrave, bachelor of Thurley, Beds to Mary Cooper, spinster of Thurley, Beds....

... so where's Dunstable come from ?

Between 1726 & 1745 Bletsoe has 6 baptisms of children of Francis & Mary, including son Cooper on 11 Sept 1738; plus there's a baptism of Mary on 14 Jun 1724 at Thurleigh.

John

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

david11000 — 2013-06-17 08:07:25Z

I cannot find such a marriage in Dunstable. The IGI does though, have a marriage of Francis Colgrave and Mary Cooper at St Benet Pauls Wharf in the City of London on 13 Jul 1723. Whether this is the couple who then baptised a number of children in north Bedfordshire remains to be proved.

If you don't have a baptism of Thomas how do you know his parents were Thomas and Judith? Having said that, there is an extracted entry on the IGI at www.familysearch.org of a baptism of Thomas Colgrave in 1663 at Puddington, Beds, son of Thomas and Judith.

Likewise, how do you know that Thomas whose wife was Judith, was born in 1640 son of Thomas and Susan? I'm not convinced that the Susan bit is right as the IGI shows a marriage of Thomas Colgrave and Margaret Pettit in Puddington on 19 Jul 1624.

But I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Move backwards, one generation at a time, to avoid researching someone else's ancestors

David

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-17 07:32:50Z

Yes David you are quite right. His birth date is 1745 - I had no knowledge of the actual date though. So thanks. J

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

david11000 — 2013-06-17 07:10:26Z

What's the evidence that Samuel was born 1724? I can only see a baptism on 16 Sept 1745 in Bletsoe.

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-16 23:00:49Z

Thanks David, yes he is.

Can you find Thomas Colgrave b 1663 who married Rebecca ? b1671 d 66.7.1745/1748 Please?

Their son Francis c 1.8.1701 in Sharnbrook, ?Bedford: married Mary Cooper in Dunstable 13.9.1723.

Jan

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-15 23:25:02Z

More History: (unconfirmed.)
1538 Francis Colgrave married Ann (?)
1555 Thomas Colgrave ? son
1572 Thomas Colgrave
1538 BDC Eng. Thurleigh, Bedford ......
1602 Thomas Colgrave born)- married Susan Pettit b 1602
1640 Tommae (Thomas)son of above - m Juditha? (1643-1682)
1663 Thomas m Rebecca ?(1671 - 6.7.1745/48.
1701 Francis 9.8.1701 m Mary Cooper (3.3.1705-10.8.1776).
Sharnbrook, Bedford
1724 Samuel,son of 1701 m Sarah Payne (b 1746 d -.5.1795).
attach to previous Francis & Frances m 19.8.1798.

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-15 22:48:59Z

The records I have: Francis born 31.8.1770, son of Samuel b 1724 - Yeoman, and Sarah Payne b 1746 d 13.5.1795.
Francis married Frances Bourne at Thurleigh 19.8.1798 their four children: Susan Payne b 20.1.1799: Harriet b10.5.1801: Samuel b1.7.1804: Frances b10.9.1809 - so Francis born of Ann Smith- b1780) an Francis b 1770 - born on 4.3.1806 is their half brother and my ggg grandfather I believe.
Thank you, Jan

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-15 22:09:00Z

Hello David, Yes this my Francis born 4.3.1806,son of Francis the mole catcher born 31..8.1770 mother Ann Smith born 1780: transported to Van Diemens Land on bord "Circassian" out of Plymouth 1832. He married Isabella Watkins. They settled in Evandale, Tasmania.

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

johnpartridge10 — 2013-06-15 10:56:02Z

Bedford St Cuthburt's has 2 burials mentioned by David earlier. (1) Francis Colegrave on 31 Jan 1829 age 61 which makes him born 1768 which ties in well with his baptism in 1771 at Thurleigh. (2) Frances Colegrave on 11 Jan 1828 age 46 making her born 1782 and age 16 when she married him. It'll be good to find the baptism of Frances Bourne to verify this, but so far I've not found it.

Also from BLARS there's a Removal order dated 28 Feb 1828 Francis Colegrave the younger from St Cuthbert, Bedford to Thurleigh that coincides with the settlement info David found.

There is a similar settlement exam for brother Samuel Colegrave dated 17 Jan 1825, stating "About 21 years of age, born in Thurleigh where his father Francis Colegrave a mole catcher resided and belonged. He has always lived with his father at Thurleigh, Bedford and Goldington and has worked as a labourer but never done any act to gain settlement inhis own right. his father has received relief from the Overseers of the Poor of Thurleigh for the last seven years and this Examinant has received money of them for his father and also for his own relief in the last year and the year before. Married at St Cuthbert on 7 June 1824 to Sarah Smith but has no children"

Plus one dated 1829 for single sister Frances Colegrave, "I am 19 years of age, was born in the parish of Thurleigh in the County of Bedford where my father Francis Colegrave then resided and belonged as I have been informed and believe to be true. At Michaelmas 1825 I let myself to Mr White of St Paul, Bedford, schoolmaster as a nurserymaid for one year to commence from Michaelmas 1825 at the wages of £4 and recieved two shillings and sixpence for ernest. I did not enter into his service until four days after Michaelmas day but it was with the permission of my Master. I continued in such service until Michaelmas day 1826 and received my full wages of £4. I then let myself again to my Master for another year to commence from Michaelmas day 1826 at the yearly wages of £5 and received two shillings and sixpence for earnest, but I did not continue in his service fro the second year more than four months in consequence of ill health. I have never done any act since to gain a subsequent settlement" Incidently she also had a bastard child; In 1832 "On 3rd August last I was delivered of a female bastard child at the house of Sarah Colegrave in the parish of St Paul, Bedford. Such child is now living and chargeable to the parish of St Paul. John Edmonds, late of St Paul, Bedford, labourer, is the father" However seems she went on & married John Richardson of Oakley at Clapham on 25 Dec 1837.

So as David says; This is your Francis

John

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

david11000 — 2013-06-15 05:22:22Z

Which dates are too far out to be your Francis? Someone born on 4 Mar 1806 would have had his 21st birthday on 4 Mar 1827 and would still have been 21, just, on 28 Feb 1828, the date of the Settlement Examination. There's no evidence of there being any other Francis Colegrave born Thurleigh, or anywhere else in Beds, with a Francis Colegrave father. He's your Francis!

David

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-14 23:57:55Z

Hello David, the dates are too far out for my ancestor Francis who was born 4.3.1806 in Thurleigh.This sounds like an unlikely story to me but I guess there may have been other Colgraves about. I have no link with St Cuthbert either ...yet.
Regards Jan

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-14 07:24:02Z

Oh dear, poor Ann and I suppose the man she married too. History is full of strange occurrences and it seems we have one too. Was Francis raised by his "father" or his step-father I wonder and what kind of life he had. Possibly a catch-as-catch-can with his two convictions for theft. His life in Tasmania after his time was served (TOL 9.3.1839)seems to be rather blameless and he and his family were respectable citizens. Death Notice: 27.10.1890 in Launceston Examiner.
Good detective work. Jan

Re: Harte Family

downer10 — 2013-06-09 17:24:48Z

I haven't got his birth certificate, I need to order it. The other query I have is whether the name was genuine ie mothers maiden name? I know back in the 40's checks wouldn't have been carried out properly so I'm not sure if its a wild goose chase due to my dad being adopted and us also not having his adoption papers.

Do you have any ideas?

Re: Harte Family

david11000 — 2013-06-08 18:52:50Z

Have you got his birth certificate? Bedford, Jun quarter 1949 vol 4a page 50, mother's maiden name Harte.

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

david11000 — 2013-06-08 18:16:20Z

It sounds feasible John, but the bit that I don't like is that the vicar didn't mention that Francis was illegitimate, particularly as all the parties were from Thurleigh, so you'd expect him to know that Francis and Ann weren't married. But if in Tasmania Francis junior says that his mother was Ann Smith then I'll go along with it. But if the name Ann Smith has been added by a modern researcher then my nagging doubt remains.

Blars online catalogue has a settlement examination of Francis Colegrave dated 28 Feb 1828 "I am about 21 years of age. I was born in Thurleigh where my father Francis Colegrave, a mole catcher resided and belonged. I have lived with my father at Thurleigh, Bedford and other places all my life and worked as a labourer but never done any act to gain a settlement in my own right. My father for some years past has been relieved by the parish officers of Thurleigh at different times and I have received money of the overseers of the Poor of that parish for my father and I have been relieved by them on my own account."

Francis jun was also the father of an illegitimate child
"
Folio.229 - 230
Ann Haynes of St Cuthbert, Bedford, widow as to her settlement and that of her 5 children.
Date Free Text 27 May 1830
Date From 1830
Date To 1830
Scope and Content
I am about 34 years of age, was born at Wilshamstead where my father Richard Gery then resided. About 13 years ago I was married at Cardington to my late husband Thomas Haynes by whom I have 5 children namely Mary aged thirteen, Elizabeth eleven, Sarah nine, Ann seven and Caroline six years. I have often heard my last husband say and I believe to be true that he belonged to Cople and that he gained his settlement by living as a hired servant with one of the gentlemen of that parish. I am not quite sure the name, I think it was Brimley. To the best of my belief he never afterwards did any act to gain a settlement elsewhere. I have not done any act to gain a settlement in my own right subsequent to my husband's death, nor have my children. i have received relief from the Overseers of Cople weekly from the time of my husbands death to the present time. I am now with child, likely to be born a bastard and Francis Colegrave of St Cuthbert, bedford, labourer, is the father."

I can't find any bastardy proceedings in 1806 though

A mole catcher sounds much more exotic than my humble ag labs!

David

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

johnpartridge10 — 2013-06-08 16:42:35Z

The Thurleigh PR baptism transcript just says Francis, son of Francis & Ann; there's no mention of Ann Smith nor any indication of illegitimacy. The Thurleigh baptisms up to 1812 have also been transcribed to FreeReg & there's no other details there either.

However ..... I've found an Ann Smith baptised Thurleigh at age 5 on 20 Feb 1785, daughter of Thomas & Judith Smith..... plus I found a marriage at Thurleigh of William Fuller of Wilden to Ann Smith on 8 May 1806...by licence... so I played a wild card & popped into Bedford library to check the marriage licence transcript.... guess what ?

William Fuller whose abode was Thurleigh of full age was to marry Ann Smith of Thuleigh also of age; surety was given by John Gale, yeoman of Thurleigh .... AND ... wait for it ... Francis Colegrove, labourer of Thurleigh.

So Francis, senior, has it away with Ann Smith & she has son Francis 1806 & then he say's its OK for her to marry William Fuller, sounds like a plot from a modern day soap!

Comments please

Harte Family

downer10 — 2013-06-08 15:34:05Z

My dad was born Samuel K Harte in Bedford, April-May 1949. His mother gave him up for adoption at birth and the only thing I have to go on is the last name. Does anyone know of their mother/nan giving a child up at this time?

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

david11000 — 2013-06-08 08:34:32Z

I agree with John's line of thought on this one. It looks to me as though the parish register might be in error, particularly as
- there are no other children of Francis and Ann baptised
- there's no marriage yet traced between Francis Colgrave and Ann Smith
- there's no burial of an Ann Colgrave in Beds after 1703
- there's only one burial of a Francis Colgrave in Beds, at Bedford in 1829 age 61 (there's also only one Frances, in 1828 in Bedford, age 46)
- there's only one Francis Colgrave in the 1803 Muster list, in Thurleigh, a labourer, class 3 ie married men 17-30, or having exactly two children under 10 (more than 2 would have been class 4)

http://foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch/convict/chain/c31a... makes no mention of parents

I would check the parish register to see if there's any additional detail.

David

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-08 01:32:45Z

The Parents of Francis Colgrave b 4.3.1806 Thurleigh, Beds
Married Frances Bourne b ?1780 m 19.8.1798 Thurleigh

Convict Records, Tasmania "Francis son of Francis Colgrave and Ann Smith 1806.

See also this board ELLinSpain Other ?s I don't know. Let us keep looking. Jan

Re: mitchell butchers ash road luton

trustmemaggie1 — 2013-06-06 05:54:55Z

Wow...thank you for that...i dont suppose you have any connections with living decendants of the mitchells in luton...i would lo e to contact them....thanks for reply..maggie

Re: mitchell butchers ash road luton

howard504 — 2013-06-06 04:55:36Z

My great grandfather (Charles Mitchell) had a butchers shop at 70 Ash Road, Luton (1911 census). Mitchells were butchers from way back. Charles' son, (William Charles, my grandfather) was also a butcher in Luton until his death about 1950. In the early 1800s the Mitchells came from Studham and/or Eaton Bray near Luton, although for a period they lived in London where they had a butchers shop in Wandsworth road, then they moved back up to Luton in 1900.

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

johnpartridge10 — 2013-06-05 13:02:01Z

Francis Colegrave married Frances Bourne on 19 Aug 1798 at Thurleigh. They baptised children there Susan Payne 20 Jan 1799, Harriet 10 May 1801, Samuel 1 Jul 1804 & Frances 10 Sep 1809.

Francis Colegrove was baptised 6 Apr 1806 to parents Francis & Ann?. I am assuming this is a transcript error or perhaps Frances was sometimes known as Ann.

Where did you get Ann Smith from? where/when did they marry? Wife Frances (Bourne) had not died as they baptised daughter Frances after this in 1809.

Are there 2 Francis Colegraves, one married to Frances & one married to Ann?

Re: COLGRAVE FAMILY of BEDFORD

coldmary35 — 2013-06-04 04:24:43Z

Francis Colgrave b 4.3.1806.Thurleigh Beds. Mother Ann Smith, Father Francis Colgrave.(I know nothing of Ann Smith do you? It appears he was married to Frances Bourne and they had 4 daughters around that time)
Francis 1806 d 1890 in Evandale,Tasmania. He had married Isabella Watkins and had a large family.Both were convicts arriving separately in VDL. Having gained their freedom -they were a respected family owning farmlands. The family are still in Tasmania, Australia. I am their GG grand-daughter.

Re: Garners

Kathie_Tulloch — 2013-05-27 18:01:19Z

That is fine but it is accessed from our Church site. I do not mind others finding out as well and I would contribute as well. Thanks anyway

Re: Does anyone have the CD(s) that covers Millbrook Bedfordshire?

ELLinSpain — 2013-05-24 09:20:55Z

JFI: it would be highly unlikely that parents would be shown on any marriage prior to registration in 1837 - normally its just "of this parish" which dos'nt mean born there - just living there - MAY have occupation - the only thing that sometimes helps is the name/s of witness' as sometimes they are family members

Re: SPENCER, HICKS, DULMAGE, FOSTER

karens1949 — 2013-05-24 01:22:58Z

The Whitebread (Whitbred) Family was pure English. No Indians to their name.

Re: Spencers

karens1949 — 2013-05-24 01:20:14Z

Donald Lines Jacobus was the editor of The American Genealogist Magazine in the 1950's. He was a renowned genealogist at that time. He did extensive search on the Spencer's before publishing his articles

Does anyone have the CD(s) that covers Millbrook Bedfordshire?

drunkensheep1066 — 2013-05-23 00:31:30Z

I was wondering if someone could look up the marriage between Samuel Woodcroft/Woodcraft and Mary Scarborough who married on the 2nd May 1817 at Millbrook, and tell me whether the record states any other information, such as their marriage condition, their parish's, parents names, occupations, birth dates etc.

Basically just any other information that the IGI record doesn't give.

Thank you in advance to anyone who can help.

Re: Looking for anyone Researching the Following:

matixavi — 2013-05-19 09:05:13Z

My great grandfather was Albert Spittle from Leighton Buzzard.

Re: Marston Moretaine Graveyard(s)

Timmofett — 2013-05-18 23:01:49Z

Thanks David!

Re: Marston Moretaine Graveyard(s)

david11000 — 2013-05-18 19:01:49Z

Per www.freebmd.co.uk there's a death registration in the Sep quarter 1940 of Mary J Harris age 72 in Oldham registration district, which ties in with her birth you show in your tree. But looking at your citations for her death, plot number 3561 is occupied by Mary J Nichol age 63 who was buried on 15 Nov 1940 at Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, not Oldham, which doesn't fit at all. There's no death registration in Beds 1935-55 of Mary J Harris, so it looks as though she may have died in Oldham, and was buried in Beds.

David

Re: Marston Moretaine Graveyard(s)

Timmofett — 2013-05-18 15:59:46Z

Hi David,

Thanks for your input but since making my tree I have been told by my father and aunty that they both (Robert and Mary) were buried at Marston Moretaine. Looks like I have to alter the info on my tree! :-)

Tim

Re: Marston Moretaine Graveyard(s)

david11000 — 2013-05-18 12:30:24Z

Tim's Ancestry tree shows Mary Jane to have been buried at Ford Cemetery, Oldham, Lancashire, plot number 3561, rather than at Marston Moretaine.

Re: Marston Moretaine Graveyard(s)

Timmofett — 2013-05-18 10:57:06Z

Thanks for the info! Please remember me if you find out anything further.

Tim

Re: Spensleys of Westoning Manor

Martinblower42 — 2013-05-18 08:41:22Z